<p>There was a discussion a few weeks ago about the relative benefits of attending a private univ vs. a public one. I cannot seem to find it - can someone please share the link. My D has narrowed her choices to Rice and UCB & I thought it would be a slam dunk for UCB given it's location, reputation etc. However, we visited Rice for Owl days and were very impressed by the school. This decision has suddenly become very difficult & I would like to read the feedback from the more experienced posters. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>No direct experience of Rice (although a friend whose D LOVED it and went on to grad school at Stanford) and my UCB experience is ancient but for what it’s worth one of the biggest anecdotal differences can be their interest in keeping you there happily once you get there. At UCB there can be the impression that they’d rather you didn’t succeed in some classes. I’m sure others will be able to weigh in on this.</p>
<p>Is it more a public/private thing or a UCB/Rice thing? </p>
<p>After visiting both schools, I have to say that both are great schools, but the experience of going to school at UCB would be very different than the experience of going to school at Rice. What does your D think? </p>
<p>My D wants a smaller school with a more collegial feel where “everybody knows your name” and the social scene isn’t too demanding. UCB was sort of the antithesis of that, while Rice was pretty much the ideal. It’s in her top three. On the other hand, one of D’s good friends decided not to apply to Rice because Houston just seemed too…I’m not sure too what, but too something that didn’t appeal to someone who was used to the NYC area.</p>
<p>Any answers in this thread cannot be generalized to private and public schools in general. Berkeley is very different from other public schools like University of Minnesota - Morris and South Dakota School of Mines and Technology, while Rice is very different from other private schools like New York University, University of Southern California, and Liberty University.</p>
<p>The question is really not private versus public, but how these particular schools fit what she wants in a school (academically and otherwise), and how they fit into your budget, if the net prices differ significantly.</p>
<p>What does your D want to study and what kind of campus atmosphere does she want?</p>
<p>Great choices to have. :)</p>
<p>@cobrat -Thanks. She wants to study Economics & Business. @ucbalumnus – we are full pay & Rice will cost about 25K more per year - but fortunately that is not a deal breaker. UCB obviously has a top 5 Econ program - but @ the undergrad level, it is a capped major and in CAL day today they said that only 65% meet the requirements to get into Econ, Haas is even less. Also, I have been hearing about the extreme curving & cut throat environment (she is a strong student but am nclined to think that the transition from a small pvt school to Rice maybe easier). @EllieMom - i know exactly what you are saying - her statement was “I really loved Rice but not Houston/TExas” We are from CA - so the sentiments maybe similar to your D’s friend from NY</p>
<p>Does Rice’s lack of an undergraduate business program bother her? I, myself, have no problem with approaching econ as a social science and Rice has a great B-school, but I can see where that might be a little bit of a red-flag for an aspiring Econ/Biz student. </p>
<p>No - not really. They have an minor offered through Jones School and her first preference is Econ and not Business. So if she goes to Rice - she will major in MathEcon & possibly Public Policy and minor in Business</p>
<p>At Berkeley, entering the economics major requires a 3.0 GPA in the prerequisite courses.</p>
<p>Berkeley offers both less-math and more-math versions of intermediate micro/macro economics and econometrics (ECON 100A/100B/140 and 101A/101B/141 respectively), and more advanced mathematical economics electives (ECON C103 and 104). Rice’s intermediate micro/macro economics is relatively light in math, but there is a more-math econometrics option (ECON 409) there are more advanced mathematical economics electives (ECON 401, 405). Either is likely to have offerings for a math-oriented economics major.</p>
<p><a href=“Economics (ECON) < University of California, Berkeley”>http://bulletin.berkeley.edu/courses/econ/</a>
<a href=“http://economics.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=69”>http://economics.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=69</a></p>
<p>Agree this is actually a school A vs B question. There is so much diversity in both public and private schools you can’t categorically say ALL of one or the other is better for a student. Don’t know enough about either school to be helpful with this choice.</p>
<p>What was your daughter feeling about Cal Day? Was it similar to her impressions of Owl Day?
One of the things that should be taken into consideration is her learning style. Does she learn better in discussion-based classes or seminar style? How will she feel about larger seminar classes in her first couple of years? Was she looking forward to closer communication with her professors from the beginning?
Is she a good self-advocate? </p>
<p>Oh and congrats to her for such wonderful accomplishments.</p>
<p>Berkeley is the premier public university in the most populous state (unless you think UCLA shares that honor). It also is the public university with the highest US News ranking. So it becomes Exhibit A on the “public” side of many CC debates over the pros and cons of public v. private universities. However, Berkeley also has characteristics that distinguish it from many other public schools. Below are some of the issues that arise in public v. private discussions and how they might bear on the UCB v. Rice choice:</p>
<p>Cost
Public schools generally have much lower in-state sticker prices than private schools and somewhat lower OOS sticker prices than private schools. **Berkeley has much lower in-state sticker prices than Rice (at full sticker). However, Berkeley also has higher OOS sticker prices ($52K+) than nearly any other public institution. Rice has the lowest cost of attendance (~$53K) of any T20 national university. ** </p>
<p>Financial Aid
About 50-60 colleges (including Rice) claim to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need. Only one of them (UNC-CH) is a public institution. At Berkeley, about 57% of students receive need-based aid; for only about 23% is need fully met; the average coverage is 81% of demonstrated need. At Rice, about 42% of students receive need-based aid; for virtually 100% of them, the school claims to meet 100% of demonstrated need. </p>
<p>Admission Selectivity
The most selective colleges and universities are private schools.
By 75th percentile SAT M+CR scores, the top 28 schools are all private. Michigan is the public school with the highest 75th percentile scores (1500 is its 75th percentile M+CR); Berkeley comes next at 1490 (tied with USC and Wellesley). Rice ranks toward the bottom of the top 20 (at 1530, tied with Duke, Penn, Northwestern, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Williams.) So at the high end (75th percentile) of the distributions, there is little difference in test scores between Rice and Berkeley. If you look at the low end, the 25th percentile scores, the difference between Berkeley and Rice widens. Berkeley’s 25th percentile M+CR is 1250 (600 CR, 650 M). Rice’s 25th percentile M+CR is 1360 (660 CR, 700 M). </p>
<p>Graduation Rates
The top-ranked public universities generally have much lower 4 year graduation rates than the top-ranked private universities. 71% of Berkeley students graduate in 4 years (one of the highest rates of any public institution). 84% of Rice students graduate in 4 years (a slightly lower rate than most other T20 national universities). Many reasons are alleged for Berkeley’s relatively low rate compared to peer private institutions. It may be because Berkeley is taking a chance on relatively many low income “first generation” students, whose preparation for college in many cases is relatively weak. It may also be due to some features of the Berkeley environment, such as relatively poor financial aid (see above), or relatively large class sizes and lack of personal attention to undergraduates (see below).</p>
<p>Class Sizes
Selective private schools generally have smaller average class sizes than even the top-ranked public universities. At most of the US News T20 national universities, 65% of classes or more have less than 20 students; 10% of classes, or less, have 50 or more students. At virtually all public universities, less than 65% of classes have less than 20 students and more than 10% have 50 or more. However, Berkeley has a higher percentage of small classes (< 20 students) and a bigger percentage of large classes (50 or more students) than nearly any other public institution.
(<a href=“Avg Class size? - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/708190-avg-class-size-p1.html</a>)
In overall class size distributions, Rice and Berkeley are not too far apart.
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rice-university-3604/academics”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rice-university-3604/academics</a>
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-california-berkeley-1312/academics”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-california-berkeley-1312/academics</a>
If you really care about this issue, you can try to find the enrollment sizes for courses in economics or other areas of interest. Berkeley publishes this information online, here:
<a href=“http://schedule.berkeley.edu/srchsprg.html”>http://schedule.berkeley.edu/srchsprg.html</a>
Some of the Berkeley economics lecture classes enroll hundreds of students (as many as 690). These large lecture classes are complemented by much smaller (~25 student) discussion sections, which in virtually all cases are led by grad students.
I have not found similar details for course enrollments at Rice. According to its CDS data, about 2% of Rice classes have 100+ students (compared to about 7% at Berkeley).</p>
<p>**Bottom Line: ** One can justify a slightly higher ranking for Rice, based on somewhat greater admission selectivity, smaller classes, better graduation rates, and better financial aid. Does all that add up to $100K worth of value? That depends on how much you value rating factors like these and what $100K is worth to you.</p>
<p>If you looked at **outcome factors<a href=“such%20as%20future%20earnings,%20graduate%20admissions,%20or%20PhD%20completions”>/b</a> you might get a different picture. Berkeley (especially at in-state rates) gets a very high ranking for economics from the payscale ROI calculator (<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/college-roi/full-list/by-major/Economics”>http://www.payscale.com/college-roi/full-list/by-major/Economics</a>); Rice does not seem to be covered by the payscale ROI data. Forbes (which uses fairly outcome-oriented criteria) ranks Berkeley #22 and Rice #33 overall. </p>
<p>Given a $100K cost difference, and based only on all these objective factors (without bringing personal “fit” issues in), I think most people would say “No” to Rice.
<a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.;
<p>I would also consider things such as housing and infrastructure. </p>
<p>@tk21769 – Wow, I had discussed many of these points with my daughter but not so thoroughly or succinctly. Thank you so much for your response – appreciate it. I will share this data with her – We are fortunate to have these choices but making the decision is much more difficult than I originally thought.</p>
<p>@hop - thanks. I am not really sure about the answers to your questions. She comes from a small private school & so she has had very few seminars type classes & that is one of my concerns. She will be lost in a sea of students left to fend for themselves @ UCB. My older child who went to a large public school and an OOS large public flagship university says that it is better to go to UcB to face the real world now and not pushing out th inevitable for another 4 years.</p>
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</p>
<p>Claims about meeting need may not be as reliable as people here think they are.</p>
<ol>
<li> Definition of “need” varies. (E.g. use of FAFSA only, or also needing CSS/Profile.)</li>
<li> Definition of “meeting” need varies. How does one account for varying levels of expected student contributions?</li>
<li> Different classes of students with respect to financial aid, particularly in-state versus out-of-state students at public universities.</li>
</ol>
<p>Fortunately, net price calculators bring a greater level of transparency to pre-application financial aid comparisons, revealing that different schools which claim to meet need can have widely varying net prices.</p>
<p>In any case, the cost and financial aid estimate comparison is irrelevant for the OP, who now knows the actual cost, financial aid (if any), and scholarships (if any).</p>
<p>We also faced this question not long ago, but my D was comparing only the 2 schools (Northwestern vs UMich in her case). It was a tough decision as the costs for us are similar and the engineering school ranks are not far off either. At the end, my D picked the school by the campus she likes more. She never had a thought on whether the school is private or public though.</p>