<p>Another vote for University of Southern Maine - less than $30K for OOS, and in a nice location in Portland, not a private though...</p>
<p>Sorry to go off topic but I'm getting whiplash about SUNY Purchase. It is on my son's list because he is a theater major. Everytime I start to feel comfortable that there is a good, non-commuter base of students I find someone who says the opposite. </p>
<p>What is the real deal? Is there a way to find out from a school what percentage of their students remain on campus weekends?</p>
<p>Nightingale....as I posted earlier, you can't go simply by sticker price. If your son applies to some schools with good merit aid and he choose ones where he will be at the upper range of the applicant pool, your cost may come in as less than the sticker price. </p>
<p>As well, I don't know your income bracket but with two in school at the same time, your "need" is greater. I would not rely on what your coworkers said about this and I'd ask schools directly if you might qualify or use EFC calculators using two in college.</p>
<p>Nighingale,
I don't think you can just go by the sticker price. For one thing, you MIGHT qualify for need based aid and I don't know your financial situation but I would not go by what your coworkers tell you. I would ask colleges directly and/or use an EFC calculator accounting for two kids in college. Secondly, as mentioned before, your son could apply to schools that give merit aid if he applies to ones where he would be near the top of the applicant pool. </p>
<p>Also, I don't see how you can so quickly assume that all the schools I mentioned in my post are pricey. I didn't look the cost up of each one as I had already spent time researching schools that either give good FA or good merit aid where your son may have a chance of getting in and also in the region you specified. Your cost parameter was $40K before aid, right? I don't have time to look up the exact cost of every school on the list I researched for you. But here are just a few that fall under $40K on that list (but not all) and these schools might provide some aid or merit money:
Colby-Sawyer
Wagner
Merrimack
Suffolk
Endicott
Merrimack
Rider
Utica
Hofstra
York College of PA
Alfred
University of Scranton
University of Southern Maine
Roger Williams
DeSales
Champlain
Philadelphia University
Ithaca (only slightly over but has good aid)</p>
<p>I had forgotten to mention U of Hartford and am glad others have done so. I have many students applying there as well as my nephew. My brother also went there.</p>
<p>I also forgot to mention St. Michael's College. </p>
<p>Your son could cut costs by summer jobs and being an RA too.</p>
<p>Thanks soozievt- Yes that was the case with my D. Because of merit aid we're paying only about 65% of the sticker price. Between my wife and I there will be no "FED" aid coming. With D in school we needed to make 77k or less total combined income. Even if they raised it to 100k, once S was attending, we still would get nothing via the Federal formula. So just like my D, my S has to rely entirely on merit, or a generous college that does not go strictly by the Fed formula. Frankly, I don't see many schools going that far outside the box for a "B" student. Maybe I'm wrong. I will certainly heed your advice and turn over each and every stone. My D loves where she is. She got a great package because we found folks like you, who so generously give such invaluable advice here on this forum.</p>
<p>Nightingale, something doesn't sound right. We make more than the amount you wrote in income. With even ONE in college, we got FA. With TWO in college, they each get a lot of aid and in fact, the aid for D1 went up when the second one entered college. You can make more than 77K and get FA at many schools with two in college no less. Talk directly with the schools.</p>
<p>By the way, for NEED based aid, it doesn't matter that your son is a B student. If he is in range for the schools he applies to and applies for need based aid, and it is a school that provides good need based aid or is willing to meet 100% of need, he should get some if you make under 100K and have two in college at the same time.</p>
<p>Thanks soozievt I'll try to PM some details to you. When you say "talk to the schools" don't most just stick to the FED formula?</p>
<p>Nightingale, I am not a FA guru by any means. I only know that we earn more than the figure you gave and my kids get FA from two private schools. </p>
<p>I really cannot handle one on one individualized help from CC's forums. I get a slew of such emails. I already volunteer considerable time on CC on the forums in an effort to give to many people at once. I have to spend the rest of my time doing one on one help with those who have contracted with me to give that kind of individualized attention. At the moment, I have spent far too many hours volunteering today, and have a slew of essays and other things to go over from students. So, I hope I have given some general advice here but I can't handle individualized help through PMs on a volunteer basis. I get too many of them and opt to give time on the forum to help more people at one time.</p>
<p>Nightingale, I think that you might be confusing institutional aid from fafsa only schools and federal grants and loans. Also, you might be better off with a school that meets on average 92% of need (with a breakdown of more insitutional grants than loans to meet that need) even if it cost 40k, than a school that has a sticker price of 37k and only meets 65% of financial need, on average. You also need to know how much risk you are willing to take, should your son lose merit aid. For example, my son was offered 16k in merit aid 3 years ago from a school that only meets, on average 65% of financial need. The gpa to keep that 16k climbed over 3 semesters to a 3.2. I decided not to roll the dice and bet that my kid could keep that gpa and scholarship.</p>
<p>Well the amount of "need" met was not relevant in my D's case since we did not qualify for any need based aid at any school she applied to, except for a $3500 unsubsidized Federal loan. She applied to 16 schools, got into 15, got "merit" aid from 14, but no institutionally based aid other than merit aid. So my thinking is whether they meet 65% or 90% it really doesn't matter if you make too much money to qualify for any need based aid based on the Fed formula or the institutional formula. Maybe if you've got three kids in 50k plus schools things are different, or if your S or D is a NMF they will then determine you have need... because they want your kid. Maybe I'm wrong...</p>
<p>$77,000 isn't a lot of income in the financial aid world. For instance, any resident of NY going to a NY institution and making under $80,000 gets a NY grant. I think you need under $40,000 for federal grants. But a lot of institutions would give you their own grants at that level. Did you fill in one of the estimated online calculators for two kids?</p>
<p>I just realized Nightingale was a dad and not a mom. I thought it was a girly kind of bird?</p>
<p>Nightingale, I am not an expert, but I think it does boil down to efc. If your efc is 30k, and at a 40k school your kid gets 10k merit aid, your need was already met. If you have 2 kids in college at the same time, your efc is supposed to be split in half (15k to each school). If your kid gets 10k in merit aid at a school that lists for 40k, you still have need for 15k. 30k after merit-15k (your efc for each school)=15k in need. So that 15k need is supposed to be met with loans, w/s, and grants. I think you need to make sure that more need on average is met with grants, and that gapping is on average is not huge (look for schools that meet as close to 100% need as possible). If your kid is on the higher end of admitted students you may stand a better chance at getting a better package (need met more with grants, and less loans). If your efc is too high, then you might be better off looking for schools that give the most merit aid, but keeping sticker price in mind. For example, my son got 6k in merit aid at a school that listed for 34k. That might be just as good as getting 12k at a school that lists for 40k (assuming your financial situation remains the same all 4 years, your kid hangs onto their scholarship, and your child graduates on time).</p>
<p>My older kid was admitted to 10 schools. The packages were all over the place. At many schools where he got merit aid, our need was met too. One school did not offer him merit aid, and we received an equal portion of funds in the way of FA grants. Schools that did not offer merit aid (5 did, and 5 did not), the that met 65% of need were generally the worst packages. My son did apply to one school that met 91% of need on average, but that package was not as good as one that met 82% on average. So, IMO, packages are not predictable and the school that met 91% need on average was not affordable. There was an additional difference between the 91% and 82% school that is important too. The 91% school was a profile school (who knows what efc they came up with), and the 82% school used the fafsa only.</p>
<p>Muffy, until this thread, I always thought Nightingale was a woman/mom too!</p>
<p>Soozie, your girls had great stats for those schools that were not 100% need met schools, and your oldest went to a school that does guarantee 100% of need to be met. I believe your younger one has a top scholarship in her package from NYU. For kids who have scores that are more in the 1800 range, getting admissions to a school that is need blind and gives 100% of need is difficult. Most of the schools that are good matches for such kids do not meet 100% of need and getting merit money at that level is not easy.
I say this as I have two kids who had stats a bit higher than that level and I know what offers they got. Now with this third one who applied to schools where his already high test scores were tops for them, more merit money was forthcoming. I know a number of kids who did not get need met, or if they did, it entailed lots of loans.</p>
<p>cpt, you are right in that my older D went to a college that meets 100% of need (they offer no merit aid). So, perhaps that is why we got aid and some schools do not meet 100% of need. Her aid shot up when the second D entered college a year later. </p>
<p>D2 did win a large four year scholarship at her private which does not meet 100% of need. I was told that the scholarship was part merit, part need. Obviously it is part merit by the fact that it was guaranteed for all four years. This year, her senior year, she has won three more scholarships from them that just keep appearing on our statements. They are named scholarships and so I think they are for merit. I have never shared her "stats" on CC. She was/is a very good student but I am sure some who got into her college who didn't win the scholarships had even higher stats than she did (she also graduated HS in three years and did the SATs in tenth grade). But I know that her scholarship also had to do with other forms of merit like talent and leadership. She also has had leadership positions AT college and so I think a lot of people put too much stock in who has the highest "stats" but there is more to merit aid at some schools than just picking the highest stats. I very much doubt my D2 had the highest stats at her university!</p>
<p>What I was trying to convey, Soozievt, is that is not a typical experience with colleges and financial aid. True, if your kids go to HPYMS, they may well give you close to full ride even with two kids in college and an income even in 6 figures. But few other schools are so generous. As you go down the selectivity list, it becomes rare to get full need met, and the definition of need gets tighter. My neighbor who has a daughter at Duke was amazed at their windfall when their other d went to a state school. Just having two in college really jacked up the institutional EFC at Duke. The state school did not give a dime, just offered loans. My friend with two at Colgate was very disappointed as to how they came up with the need. She would have done better if her second daughter had gone to another school, but she preferred Colgate and went there. </p>
<p>It is much tougher for those of us who have kids in the 1800 test score range and a B average without a "hook". Not only are there few merit awards available for such kids, the need met at many of the schools is skimpy.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, as I said, I am definitely not a FA guru, not even close. It is not my forte. I think you are right that it will be different at schools that don't offer to meet 100% of need. I was just commenting that the OP thinks he won't get FA even if the family income is under $77K or even 100K with two in college. I just don't think one should assume that. I think it is possible but it would vary from school to school.</p>
<p>It is possible, but not that easy, Soozue. But now I am curious why the OP is looking at schools close to the $40K range in sticker price with an income below 6 figures unless the family has assets to pay for that amount. That would impact financial aid greatly. THough a person may think that with savings, $40K is what he can afford, that is not necessarily how the colleges may come up with the numbers.</p>
<p>I have a friend who owns and manages a number of apartments that are his investments for retirement as well as source of current income. He did not get a dime of financial aid offers despite an income that should have come up with something. As far as the colleges were concerned, he could sell one of his units. In his financial planning, it did not make sense at all do it. Had he been more conventional, he would have gotten aid. So circumstances can cause a wide range of packages.</p>
<p>From the OP. We are fortunate to make more than 77K I just mentioned the 77k because that is what the FAFSA person told me we would have to make LESS than to get Federal aid, other than the standard non-subsidized student loan. So my thinking is a family earning double the 77k would not have a prayer. regardless of where their kids go. I was just fishing for some schools who might offer my S some merit, based on gender, geography, or whatever, as he is not a A student with maxed our SAT's. My thinking is merit is all that will be offered.... at least that is what people we know in similiar financial situatons tell us.</p>
<p>Nightingale and anyone else, if you do end up visiting Drew with your children, please go a little farther (like maybe a mile?) down THE SAME STREET and visit the Florham campus of Fairleigh Dickinson. It's also a beautiful campus, with the same access to NYC by train (maybe better, since the station is right on the edge of campus) and a small student body (about 2500). They are quite generous in offering merit scholarships: any students who apply by Jan. 15th and include 2 letters of recommendation are considered automatically for their Col. Fairleigh S. Dickinson Scholarships, purely on merit. My son had good test scores, with a B GPA at best, and was offered a <em>massive</em> merit scholarship which tipped his decision balance in favor of FDU over some of the other schools mentioned here (and brings our annual cost to less than a UC campus (with no FA), and we're in-state for the CA schools). He liked the Florham Honors program for freshmen, and felt the course offerings in his areas of interest were broader than those at Drew, where we also visited. With your son's stats, I'd be very surprised if FDU didn't offer him a nice merit award.</p>