Probably getting C's in Calc 3 & Gen Chem...chances of med school shot?

<p>thank you for your unbiased, insightful advice, somemom.</p>

<p>OP, just two things for you to think about:</p>

<p>1) all the other students in your class dealt with the same professor you did. Some of them got A’s and B’s. Even if the calc and chem classes were tough classes known as weeders, some kids got A’s and B’s.</p>

<p>2) you’re in an all new ball game. When my oldest son matriculated at Emory, the president of the university asked all students who had been in the top 10% of the class to stand. Almost every student present stood up. He then said…I can guarantee that 90% of you will not be graduating in the top 10% four years from now.</p>

<p>Think about it. And also realize that when you take the MCAT a few years from now, the competition will again be a quantum tougher, because the kids who couldn’t compete will already have dropped out of the race.</p>

<p>domer–I’m not attacking; I’m trying to give a reality check.</p>

<p>Most pre meds work their ass off in high school. Most take the most rigorous coursework available to help prepare them for the competition of college pre med. Most pre meds would like to attend a expensive private school, but the reality is that most cannot afford to do so. Medical school adcomms are not going to treat punitively applicants who comes less advantaged circumstances. The bare faced fact is that the name of your college has not going to get your app noticed. (You need to have a portfolio that gets you noticed.) No one gets “gimme” points because they attended a brand name school.</p>

<p>Med school is among the top 5 most popular career goals listed by college freshman. Nationally the fall out rate of pre meds is around 67-75%. More than 2/3rds of all freshmen pre-meds will never even apply to med school.</p>

<p>Every year 100,000+ unique individuals take the MCAT. Every year ~50,000 unique individuals will apply to allopathic medical schools. There are only a total of 19,000 seats in all US medical schools. 60% of all applicants get rejected from all schools they apply to.</p>

<p>Every step to medical school is a winnowing. You need to prepared for that.</p>

<p>Don’t get cocky about the MCAT. It’s not like any exam you’e ever taken and the score scaling is based upon the cohort of MCAT test takers from the previous year. (IOW, your intellectual peers and competitors.)</p>

<p>The ACT/MCAT concordance is a rule of thumb, but it’s as often wrong as it is right. Don’t assume that because your ACT was good, your MCAT will be. (Everyone says they’re going to "kill the MCAT’; only a few actually do.)</p>

<p>As somemom said (and I said)–Cs are not fatal. But you have now dug yourself a decent sized hole which will require effort and dedication to get out of.</p>

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<p>I will choose to take this at face value, though obviously I am biased ;)</p>

<p>Seriously, this

is really a vehicle to give you power over your future. If your Cs are due to bad profs (and, yes, one of my DDs took ochem from an ESL chem researcher at a UC who did not teach much of the curriculum, the curve for an A in the class was something bizarre like 47/100 = A) then you have no hope to do better. If you empower yourself, whether to choose better profs, find non class options to help, or to fight the system to find your way to learn, you will succeed.</p>

<p>You cannot be successful if you see yourself as a victim of things happening, rather find a way to chart your own path to success.</p>

<p>OP, sorry you’re taking Calc III as a freshman. So often kids make the mistake and sign up for that because they got 5s in their AP Calc, but it’s a whole different story to be at college. And be careful about looking for someone to blame. Many kids struggle in their freshman year: new routines, new friends, new priorities, new hours, sharing a room. Some have to play catch-up, which isn’t easy, or some change their career goals.</p>

<p>Also be careful about sounding like “of course you’ll get an A from now on”. Good attitude, but take it one day at a time. Who knows how you’ll encounter other courses from here on out. I assume you didn’t plan to get a C/C+ this semester.</p>

<p>

Miami, You are harsh and defeating.</p>

<p>Surely a few Cs aren’t the end of the world. Obviously it’s far from ideal, but there’s no reason you should abandon your dreams for med school right now. </p>

<p>ND is an awesome school with many fabulous opportunities. You should really take advantage of those! There’s a lot more to a med school applicant than just a GPA, and it’s important for you to build an impressive collection of meaningful extracurriculars to supplement your stats. </p>

<p>Retaking a C is a waste of time and money; both the original grade and the new grade will be calculated into your AMCAS GPA (the only one that matters) regardless of ND’s policy. You’re better off diluting those Cs with As in higher level science classes.</p>

<p>Michigan is a lofty goal for any applicant. Something that’s important to realize about med school is that in the US, all med schools are good ones. (Compare this to UG: all are probably OK, but not all are good.) Really, you will be just fine regardless of what med school you go to. Typically, your best chance of admission is your state’s state school; for you, that might be MI? Another thing to keep in mind is that the competition for a spot in any med school is stiff, and that a good primary goal when applying to med school is simply being accepted to any school. Setting your sights on one particular school (except, perhaps, if it’s your state school) is more than likely a bad idea because you’re unlikely to be accepted there regardless of how great of an applicant you are; on the other hand, setting a goal of being accepted somewhere and then applying intelligently is much more reasonable.</p>

<p>A few years ago, a premed from ND had a very successful med school application cycle, including getting into several med schools. She seems to have posted that her stats is about 3.9/39 from ND. Her leadership quality was impressive (I think she was the first one or one of the first few who volunteered to provide the online chat to share her and many other kind CCers’ experience about being premeds), even though she was active on the CC forum for a relatively short time. If any long-time CCer here knows who I refer to, do you also think she is especially “sweet” and warm in almost all posts she made?</p>

<p>Nobody would doubt she could do well as a premed, or as a med school student. At one time, probably during the online chat she helped organize, as good as she is academically, she still said many science majors (I think she mentioned the biochem major in particular) could be quite challenging at many school, including ND.</p>

<p>She is definitely the material for getting into the med school OP mentioned, though she chose to attend a smaller me school than U. of Mich. in the end. (That smaller one is the med school that GAmom’s D had been considering for some time but finally dropped it because it is too far from her circle of friends. LOL.) But all you could possibly sense from her posts is that she is very humble, never showing anything in her posts that ND is tougher than any other school.</p>

<p>Well…I do not know exactly why I mention this history that was many years ago (when DS was still a “lowly premed” and I was still very eager to learn the in-and-out of premed life.) </p>

<p>It just occurs to me that kristin’s posts are sometimes like hers.</p>

<p>"Originally Posted by MiamiDAP
Getting Cs in your freshman year is not called commitment, it is neglect. </p>

<p>Miami, You are harsh and defeating. "
-The harsher the better. I did raise 2 kids who are adults. Soft does not help, period, and more so when person needs to open the eyes much wider instead of keeping head in sand, the last would not help, unless he wants to stay there for the rest of his life. I am amazed at the attitude, apparently there is no notion that everybody is on the same boat, Harvard, local college, rigorous HS, low income area local public HS, once at for all, Med. School admission WILL NOT CARE. Isn’t it better to understand it now in freshman year instead of face horrible reality in senior year?
Asking for advice is one thing, looking for picking up fights is all different story. If advice is the goal, there is no reason for seeking support in getting Cs in college, no matter what is a major. Getting Cs in college is not understanding that college is a luxury that many cannot afford. NOBODY should get Cs in college, period.</p>

<p>

But this is unrealistic and ergo unhelpful and inaccurate advice for many people in many situations, and in reality a C or two may not make a hill of beans difference. Thus, this kind of blanket abrasive statement is going to lend itself to a strong response from posters.</p>

<p>I guess it is a lot easier to NOT get Cs at Miami Ohio than at some other schools, including flagship state universities. I think students should be encouraged to go outside their comfort zone, which might mean taking a class in which they will struggle- perhaps one with a noted professor in the field. The result might not be an A, but it might advance the student’s skills and understanding.</p>

<p>

I agree with you, but only within a context. This poster added that he/she thought the grades in subsequent semesters would significantly improve. That’s not keeping one’s head in the sand. She/he is here asking for advice, and thus is trying to figure out future plans. Therefore, she/he isn’t TRYing to stay at the C range for the rest of his/her life.</p>

<p>Freshman year can be hard for many students. There’s a lot to figure out. Since domer825 is concerned about how one grade affects the entire transcript, don’t you think she/he cares about improving? No need to tout how your DDs excelled because, truth is, not every medical student got all As (but still was accepted). In fact, medical schools are looking for high EmQ students, not just high IQ students.</p>

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<p>Word. (imho)</p>

<p>Having watched a humanities major slug through pre-med courses and seeing how hard it was to be a high performer in unrelated areas I have no doubt that it is an even harder road for the engineering pre-meds, who very seldom get to come up for air by taking a course just for fun. Respect.</p>

<p>lima,
Sorry, you misunderstood my comment about keeping head in the sand. I was refering to superiority complex because of attending certain UG. I said reality is that Harvard or local non-ranked college and whatever HS, Med. School admission will care about GPA and getting Cs is not a good idea for any major. Leaving behind this type of attitude and looking only inside for improvements in personal situation instead of comparing yourself to “inferior” applicants from supposedly non-challenging lowery UGs is not a right approach. I meant that eye opener is neede here otherwise, OP puts himself at great disadvantage. And it is better to do it now in freshman year, then wait that somebody does it to you in your senior year.</p>

<p>It occurs to me there are some posts in this thread whose tone could be a little bit more heated than usual.</p>

<p>I always thought the following old CC thread is a “role model” of how to provide advices to other CCers in an informative and constructive way. As I has posted earlier, some person like PrincessND (who happens to be from ND – how relevant to OP as it happens to be!) just has the gift in giving advices in a nice way. (Her mastering of English, as demonstrated in her very high MCAT verbal score, could be a factor here. Not all CCers, especially some parents of premeds, could have acquired such a high level, persuative language skill. I suggest that please do not use the same stantard for the parents than for the med-school students or med-school-to-be students, when needed. After all, med school students are supposed to be a master of language as they will have the responsibility of advising their patients in the future.)</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/672778-ask-med-student-advice-undergrads.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/672778-ask-med-student-advice-undergrads.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It is a little bit old. But the concentration of high quality posts in that thread is amazing in my opinion. When I have time, I believe I could still read and learn something from that thread even today.</p>

<p>For one thing, within just 16 pages of that thread, I think 8 posters were med school students at the time of the posts: PrincessND, BDM, norcalguy, ginnyvere, mmmcdowe, shades_children, Icarus, Steeler, and Shraf. Of cources, there were those parents who are frequent CC visitors learning about premed life along side with their premed children; all these parents now have their child at a med school: curm, Pharmagal, somemom, twinmom, MiamiDAP, and GA2012mom. I personally am very thanksful for all these CCers’ help for me in the past.</p>

<p>Hey! You left me off your list! I have one in med school and another applying next cycle. (And the two couldn’t be more different in their interests, activities, and academics. Different kids; different goals; different list of schools; different processes.)</p>

<p>But I do agree that most people here have been quite generous with their time and advice.</p>

<p>^ Sorry, WowMom. It was my mistake! I had just browsed through most pages of that 16-page thread and overlooked your name perhaps. (BTW, did you remember that it was me who found that it is so interesting that WayOutWestMom could be interpreted as “WOW” Mom? LOL.)</p>

<p>Unlike me, you defintely provide very informative, authoritive info to all of us from time to time. I consider your “premed-related” knowledge level to be close to that of a med school student than that of a regular parent, likely due to the nature of your job. Having two premeds in a row could be a factor as well, because it could keep you motivated in picking up related knowledge over a longer time.</p>

<p>Yeah–you and kristin both…I spent some time considering my screen name. (I also like WOWM–which can be pronounced Wow 'em!)</p>

<p>PrincessND! Those were the good old days. Those chats were so informative.</p>

<p>^ I am glad I am not the only one who thinks it was the good old days.</p>

<p>BDM once posted that the CC premed “good old days” phenomenon started by a single med school student, BRM who came herevoluntarily. BDM soon joined him and stayed around for a pretty long time also. Then came the other “second generation” med school students who benefits from the “first generation” of med school students here. Many of the “second generation” were mentioned in post #34.</p>

<p>The “grand-daddy” of parents here, as I remember, are likely curm and eadad who started even when their child was just a high schooler! (and another likely called Hubbard’s Dad.) There appears to be more helpful moms of premeds (too numerous to be listed here) than dads though. Call me a sexist, by and large, moms are more helpful to the children even today (but it is changing…) ! LOL.</p>

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<p>That my cyber-friend, is statistically impossible at most colleges (which curve intro STEM courses to a C+/B-, or lower). By definition, there HAS to be C’s in every Frosh STEM class. (It is part of the DNA of the profs.)</p>