<p>I'm a first-semester freshman at a top-20 university. I am an engineering major, and in the honors program. I will probably be getting a C/C+ in both Calculus 3 as well as General Chemistry. Are my chances of getting into med school shot?</p>
<p>Say I get close to--if not--all A's from here on out, and ace my MCATs. Will med school admissions people be forgiving of a bad first semester freshman year at a top school? Will retaking these courses help?</p>
<p>I want to go to med school at the University of Michigan.</p>
<p>domer,
Forget about chances for a minute. Ask yourself about ability to keep up.<br>
Med. School academic level cannot be compared at all to college level. In addition, Calc. and Gen. Chem. are on easier side at UG level. Other science classes like Orgo and upper Bio are much harder.
In addition, D. has applied to U of M Medical School. She had no single “B” in college. She never heard from U of M, not a peep in response to her application. She was accepted to couple top 20s and is fine at her current Med. School. I share her experience to give you certain prospective.
OK, get all As from now on, nothing impossible. Do everything else in regard to ECs, LORs…etc. Do not be too discouraged. However, it does require certain commitment. Getting Cs in your freshman year is not called commitment, it is neglect.</p>
<p>Thank you for your responses. Like I said, I go to an academically-rigorous school, not Podunk University. Gen Chem and Calc 3 at my school are known for their extreme difficulty, so no, they are not “easy.” However, I have confidence that I can get A’s in these types of courses from here on out (I was on a varsity sports team, and had double shifts at work this semester, which occupied a lot of time, leading to these grades. I will not have these issues in future semesters). </p>
<p>No one has really answered my questions. Am I screwed? Should I retake these courses??</p>
<p>I would not retake the courses but you cannot afford any more C’s. Forget about U-M and focus on getting your GPA up enough to get accepted “anywhere”. You know what they call a student who graduates from Podunk University medical school? Doctor!</p>
<p>^Med. School would not care if you go to Harvard. They do not want to see Cs. Get all As from now on. This is the best advice I can give you as a parent of a second year Med. Student. Forget explaining your Cs also. Never open your mouth at interview if you want to explain the way you just did in pot #4. The only good explanation would be is that you were immature but adjust quickly to new requirements and are ready to work as hard as required at Med. School, whatever it takes. Forget about rigor of your school, irrelevant. The earlier you open your eyes to reality, the better for you. This is not intend to be harsh, it is just facts that you have to face pursuing the very challenging goal in whihc getting into Med. School is one of the easiest part. Then the real challenges start, be prepared to work as a horse…smarts are not enough</p>
<p>Admissions
For accepted applicants of University of Michigan Medical School, the average grade point average (GPA) of admitted students is 3.78, which is significantly higher than the average for all Medical Schools. Accepted applicants also have an average total MCAT score of 34.2, which is significantly higher than the average for all Medical Schools.</p>
<p>Total admissions data
5267 applied, 713 interviewed, 416 were accepted, 171 enrolled (7.9% acceptance rate).</p>
<p>Engineering+Honors courses+Varsity sports (particularly if recruited @ND?) is not a recipe for earning A’s. The good news is that varsity sports can be a nice soft, but will not overlay C’s.</p>
<p>“For accepted applicants of University of Michigan Medical School, the average grade point average (GPA) of admitted students is 3.78, which is significantly higher than the average for all Medical Schools. Accepted applicants also have an average total MCAT score of 34.2, which is significantly higher than the average for all Medical Schools.”</p>
<p>-NOT enough.
D. who never heard from U of M after applying very early and who eventually got accepted to couple top 20s, had GPA=3.98, MCAT=35, enough ECs for couple applications (she basically amazed her pre-med advisory with amount) and did not even mention some of them on her application for the lack of space. She had great LORs, was Phi Beta Kappa, and received the most outstanding pre-med award (only one was awarded) at graduation. She also had several medals on her neck at graduation, I was worried actually about her neck hurting. She did NOT have PhD from Harvard though and she did NOT save humanity from AIDs. So, by some dimensions she was just regular Summa Cum Laude and it was not enough for U of M.</p>
<p>I wasn’t recruited, I was a walk-on for rowing. But it ate up way too much time, so I stopped. </p>
<p>I’m asking: if I change my ways, and get all A’s from here on out, and ace the MCAT (I’m a good standardized test-taker), do I have a chance of getting into a decent med school? I find the prospect of someone who goes to an academically-unchallenging undergrad university and receives a 4.0, but gets into med school before me due to two C grades my first semester freshman year at Notre Dame, troubling.</p>
<p>“do I have a chance of getting into a decent med school? I find the prospect of someone who goes to an academically-unchallenging undergrad university and receives a 4.0”
2 great misconceptions:
there is NO such thing as USA Med. School that is NOT decent. All, including un-ranked at the bottom of the list USA Med. Schools are a dream for every single pre-med, inside and outside of the USA. All they dream about is getting accepted to absolutely any one, to have one spot is a really big deal, a huge accomplishment and the acdemics at any of the USA Med. Schools would be much harder that any college senior can imagine.
There is absolutely no such thing as "an academically-unchallenging undergrad university ", they do not exist. I have heard from top kids from private prep. HSs who went to our local college about academic shock and huge adjustment needed, which is proven by your own experience. If you think that your classes were much harder than at other places, my suggestion is to open your eyes and think about all people who get accepted to various selective Grad. schools, Med. schools, Law schools,…etc. after graduation from their no named UGs. Why these fine institutions accept these applicants? Is that because the graduates from these low ranked colleges have proven themselves NOT prepared for challenges ahead? You really need to change your prospective becuase this type pf thinking will not be an advantage going to interviews.
Pre-mes are getting weeded out after first semester at ANY PLACE. This includes valedictorians from rigorous HSs who decided to go to state publics fro various reasons.
Putting down other UG will not work for you. Do not put yourself at disadvantage thinking this way. Rather, as you have said yourself, change your ways, get more commited to your academics and try to get all As from now on and you will be a good candidate. As for MCAT, your reasonable esitmation is being within 2 points of your ACT, it was correct estimation for my own D. If you never took ACT, there are converters from SAT score to ACT score, so you still can estimate.</p>
<p>OP, you may have problems unrelated to your GPA that may be a greater obstacle to medical school. This sense of entitlement will be noticed and it will not be helpful.</p>
<p>Thank you for answering my question. These grades are simply not indicative of my capabilities. The combination of getting short-changed by having an inadequate professor for Chemistry (I got the one who breezes through the material and doesn’t write the exams), insufficient time due to involvement in extracurricular stuff, and being a naive college freshman really did it for me. But I plan to, and will, improve. I was just wondering to what extent these grades would impact my chances three years down the road. </p>
<p>If your guideline for MCAT scoring is correct, MiamiDAP, I should be in good shape.</p>
<p>Miami, just because you keep saying “private prep” that does not make your D’s high school in podunk Ohio rigourus. If somebody is a Val of 33 kids does not make somebody special. And somebody getting a “C” in college is not neglect! My D got one, so did bluedevilmike and a couple of others on this board have said they got a “C” in UG. Guess what, your D’s non flagship isn’t all you think it is. Ooooh, your kids school has weeder classes you say. Guess what, so do all the other HIGHER ranked schools that you poo poo. And guess what, the students at “other” higher ranked schools have smarter kids than your kids school did. Makes getting top of the curve a bit tougher. So please stop telling people that getting a 4.0 is easy. Guess what, people at my kids school didn’t do that, and I assure you that Miami of Ohio is NOT more rigourous. And please stop talking about merit aid as being better than need based aid. The kids that can get into the top need based aid schools are not slackers. Seriously, please stop.</p>
<p>OP, your c’s are fine, not great but will NOT keep you out of medschool despite what some say. Good luck.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, just because your daughter didn’t get in with her stats doesn’t mean others didn’t. If that were the case then the average GPA would be much higher. Obviously she just didn’t have what they were looking for in that particular admission cycle or there were other areas lacking on her application. Not everyone that was admitted had a 4.0. See below:</p>
<p>Admissions Summary</p>
<pre><code>Number applying in 2012: 5,392 (2.3% increase from 2011)
Number interviewed: 667 (12.37% of application pool)
Number of students in the class: 177*
Class average Sci GPA: 3.75 (Range 2.66 - 4.00)
Class average Total GPA: 3.78 (Range 2.80 - 4.00)
Class average MCAT 34.20 (Range 26 - 43)
</code></pre>
<p>If you are OOS I doubt that was it as U-M has one of the lowest in-state admission percentages of the public state medical schools. Now, if you applied OOS in Florida that would have been a different case. I would say they do have a love for their UG’s though as they make up 35% of the class profile (61 out of 177).</p>
<p>Puleez! Stop blaming the professor for your grades. You’re in college now and are expected to be an independent learner. There are numerous resources available to undergrads–tutoring, study groups, recitations, office hours, academic support center, online google search for problem sets, alternate texts… Use them. It doesn’t matter how good --or bad the prof-- the prof is; the onus is on you to master the material. I guarantee this won’t be the last “inadequate” prof you’ll encounter in your college career. (And god help you if you do get into med school expecting the lecturers to spoonfeed you the material–you won’t last past the first quiz.)</p>
<p>And drop the entitled attitude. Just because your parents are able to afford to send you to ND doesn’t mean that you should be considered any differently than someone who can only afford a less “competitive” school or who chose to attend a lower USNWR ranked school because they got a large scholarship and will graduate with minimal debt. </p>
<p>Now to answer your question:
</p>
<p>Yes, these grades will impact your chances in 3 years because now you have lower than ideal GPA as a starting point. Running the GPA calculator and assuming you’re taking 16 credits/semester (a typical engineering work load), you will need to earn an A- average each semester between now and the time you apply to get your cGPA and sGPA above 3.6.</p>
<p>And as you’ve already found out it’s not as easy to earn As in college as it was in high school. </p>
<p>So, is your situation fatal? No. Will it make your life more difficult in the future? Absolutely.</p>
<p>Are you KIDDING me, WayOutWestMom? I worked my ass off in high school to GET IN here. That I’m here has NOTHING to do with “being rich”…which I’m definitely not. Quit it with the presumptuous, demeaning, condescending attitude. I’m just a naive college student asking for advice about med school. Stop attacking me. And for the record, my high school was also extremely rigorous…getting A’s there was no piece of cake.</p>
<p>The Cs do not help, but yes, people in med school have gotten a C, or maybe two. The thing to do now is make sure you have learned from whatever caused the Cs and are prepared to go forward with mostly As. Remember, even an A- can drag down your GPA a little bit.</p>
<p>Many schools will view the trend favorably, but it’s up to you to start now and carry forward successfully. A high GPA is a screening tool, some schools will screen 10,000 applications down to a more manageable pile using the numbers- GPA & MCAT.</p>
<p>One caveat, do not assume you will get a great MCAT, maybe you will, maybe you won’t. You score is now scaled against the pool of MCAT takers, instead of being compared to most of the HS students in the country taking the SAT, you are competing with only the prospective med students. If you get a solid MCAT that will be great, but begin now doing your best to get As whenever possible, an A-, a B+ won’t kill you GPA, but work to your potential and show your best self. </p>
<p>Med school is even more time consuming than undergrad and residency worse, they are looking for excellent time management, which means having some great ECs AND a 3.5+ most terms.</p>
<p>Domer- I don’t think you are reading WOWmom’s post with the right viewpoint. WOWmom is an excellent resource posting info to help YOU. Answering questions YOU asked, with bluntness, to help you. She is quite experienced in all this and has valuable information.</p>
<p>Some of your quick posts did come across a bit entitled and with only 5 posts in your history, you would be smart to NOT get cranky with “old timers” who have no goal other than to give back and help other students.</p>
<p>I am sure you worked very hard to get into a great school, most other med school applicants did the same in HS. Now you need to BOTH do all the same things they do- good grades, good MCAT, strong LORs, good ECs, apply early & wisely, etc. But you also want to do whatever you can that follows your personal interest and passion which thereby allows you to stick out from the crowd. When they look at 10,000 applications in a stack, have there be a reason why you are interesting and why they want to meet you for an interview.</p>