Professor floats idea of three-year B.A. to cut college costs

<p>"In theory, it's a simple idea. With the cost of attending college rising, why not reduce the typical time for a bachelor's degree from four years to three?" ...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-tuition-column-20141210-story.html"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-tuition-column-20141210-story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Seems pretty reasonable</p>

<p>If you can’t afford a 4 yr degree, why not attend one of the many community colleges that offer Two year programs?
<a href=“7 Reasons Why You Shouldn't Go To College and 4 Things To Do Instead | HuffPost Impact”>HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost;

<p>This has been floated many times before, and nothing has come of it.</p>

<p>Many areas of Europe do this already. </p>

<p>It’s an idea that appeals to a lot of legislators. Seeing it proposed by a professor at a private school is a little surprising – then again, Weinstein is an economist in a Public Management program.</p>

<p>The losers will be those who support general education. Organizations like AAC&U have been trying in recent years to communicate the relevance of GE to employment, but it’s a hard row to hoe. The supporters tend to be idealists, but GE courses as they are actually taught frequently fail to live up to those ideals. I’m an idealist myself, but if GE reform doesn’t make some serious progress in the next 5 years, I’m going to lose my patience. I might advocate for three-year degrees myself.</p>

<p>Who needs a program to do thiswhen you can already graduate early? Just take college credits during high school you can graduate in less than 4 years. It can be easily done. Two of my children did this and graduated in 3 and 2 1/2 years. </p>

<p>Of course the other option of starting at a community college is also a valid option - one that worked extremely well for another one of my children. She saved thousands of dollars. </p>

<p>Community college is an associates degree or certificate program in two years, not a bachelors. This article talks about getting a bachelors in 3 years. Alot of schools are restricting students to four courses per semester. Simple economics: more semesters, more $$, less semesters, less $$. If your courses are balanced well, you should be able to handle five courses. I know students who take four courses and only go to school MWF, or T/TH with a couple of late afternoon courses. This is something D and I have talked about. If the school she attends allows it and she can balance her courses in such a way that it is not too demanding, she will take five courses most semesters.</p>

<p>Community college is simply being suggested as a way to save money and I assumed that it was implied (I know I was an idiot for assuming!) that the student would then go on to a 4 year university.<br>
My daughter did this - she took 90 credits at a community and then only needed one year to finish up her 4 year degree. She didn’t save time, but she did save thousands this way as she only paid the university tuition for one year but ended up with a 4 year university degree.</p>

<p>Schools that allow 5 courses a semester generally offer 3 credit classes. Schools that only allow 4 classes per semester generally offer 4 credit classes. 4 - 4 credit classes would give you 16 credits a semester. To take five 4 credit classes would put you at 20 credits and almost all colleges would not allow that. </p>

<p>One of my daughters took six 3 credit classes each semester and was able to finish early. Her her college offered mainly 4 credit classes, she could not have done this as this school did not allow students to have more than 18 credits a semester. </p>

<p>It seems common in Australia. My understanding, for an engineering student like my friend’s son, is that there is no requirement for humanities or liberal arts, it is 100% engineering courses including pertinent math and science.</p>

<p>My brother finished his degree in 3 years and one trimester. Then the school started charging students for all four years, even if they finish early. He did not take any summer or winter courses, just overloaded each semester.</p>

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<p>It depends entirely on the curriculum and the rigor of the courses. The number of hours spent in class per week is not a good indicator of rigor. At many elite colleges, four per semester is the historical and current norm. It is not some nefarious new plot to make more money. I would especially advise first-semester freshmen not to take more than 4 classes. Many students who load up on credit hours in one semester end up cutting corners and not doing well, or collapsing from stress.</p>

<p>Most colleges that restrict students to four courses as an institutional norm have excellent retention and four-year graduation rates, so it’s not really a problem for their students.</p>

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<p>That is part of the Bologna Agreement. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.eua.be/eua-work-and-policy-area/building-the-european-higher-education-area/bologna-basics/Bologna-an-overview-of-the-main-elements.aspx”>http://www.eua.be/eua-work-and-policy-area/building-the-european-higher-education-area/bologna-basics/Bologna-an-overview-of-the-main-elements.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>In practice, the system is one of 3UG/2Graduate years cycle as opposed to our 4+1. </p>

<p>3-year degrees are common in countries where incoming university students choose a program from the get-go (no undeclared majors, etc.). Generally, these students are also more focused, mature, and much better prepared academically than the average US college freshman. I think 3-year programs would work well for certain kinds of students here, but they won’t meet the needs of many students currently occupying seats in US colleges. So I’m skeptical that 3-year programs will fundamentally address the issue of college costs for large numbers of people.</p>

<p>^ ^</p>

<p>Countries with 3-year BA/BS degrees also have education systems where GE requirements are handled in HS or sometimes even middle school. </p>

<p>The BA/BS content/requirements in such countries would be more akin to something leaning much closer to a specialized American Masters degree. </p>

<p>Well, seniors in HS could complete many of the Core/GE classes thru AP or DE…that would eliminate a year.</p>

<p>In theory, a typical liberal arts (humanities, social studies, science) major plus a moderate number of general education courses could be fit into three years of normal course loads (about 90-96 credits or about 23-24 typical size (4 credit) courses), if the total number of credits or courses to graduate were lowered to that. However, the schedule would have little or no space for free electives, and the student would have to choose courses carefully (departments would likely have to give a schedule template for students to follow). Exploring as an undecided student or changing major would be more likely to result in late graduation.</p>

<p>That would be less feasable at schools with more voluminous general education requirements, or for majors with relatively large numbers of required credits or courses.</p>

<p>Even bigger ripoff, both in terms of money and time, is the 4 year pre-med undergrad degree.</p>

<p>Even bigger ripoff, both in terms of money and time, is the 4 year pre-med undergrad degree.</p>

<p>Or law degrees… isn’t the “mandatory” part of the law school curriculum 2 years?</p>

<p>Also, since no specific undergraduate major or course work is required to enter law school (except in specific types of law work, like patents), would it be less costly if law schools admitted college juniors as transfers (or even frosh out of high school)?</p>

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<p>In the countries where the 3-year BA/BS, the GE coursework would take more than 1 year and would be more demanding than most AP or DE courses…especially if the latter is at most average ccollege or lower-tiered 4-year institution. </p>

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<p>The alternative in many foreign countries is a college admission system where only those with absolutely topflight STEM scores on school leaving exams like the matura or A-Levels or topflight exams on national college entrace exams are admitted to med school at 17-18 whereas everyone else is cut out. </p>

<p>While it may not be a ripoff financially, it does mean most applicants are cut from any consideration for med school at the get-go, attend med school for 6+ years, and if one finds being a doctor isn’t for him/her…he/she needs to start all over again from the beginning in another bachelors program in another department. The last also means a loss of a med school slot which could have gone to someone who had a greater desire to follow through to become a doctor. </p>

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<p>Couple of major issues are:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Most US HS curricula don’t prepare HS graduates to tackle the rigor/teaching style or the high-stakes one exam counts for 100% grading used in many law schools…especially if they are really old-school about the socratic method. Heck, most attorneys/law students have said with a few exceptions, most undergrad education have serious issues in this regard as well.</p></li>
<li><p>Doing so would be viewed by many US attorneys and law students/alums as further lowering the barrier of entry into what has been viewed as an increasingly oversaturated profession with students less prepared to tackle the rigors of law school education or better yet, being prepared to take/pass bar exams after graduation. </p></li>
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<p>There was some recent reports about bar exam pass rates dropping because the pool of law school students in the last few years have been reduced to the point most law schools have had to lower their admission standards regarding GPA/LSATs. </p>

<p><a href=“Declining Nationwide Bar Exam Pass Rates - Above the Law”>http://abovethelaw.com/2014/10/declining-nationwide-bar-exam-pass-rates/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;