Profs ban electronics--D awful at hand notes

Parents Forum
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<p>I had a sleeper last semester. The guy next to him took his picture on an iPad and emailed it to the rest of the class (and possibly the guy’s coach) with a funny caption. I didn’t have to do anything but laugh. </p>

<p>I, too, am a big hater of the consumer approach to education. You’re not buying a degree. You’re paying for an opportunity to earn it, and that opportunity does not entitle you to dictate the terms under which it is offered. Can you imagine? Each person in your class decides there’s something “unreasonable” about your requirements and, as a paying customer, is entitled to change policies to better fit his or her needs? ACK!</p>

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<p>Because all classes and all instructors don’t have the same requirements. This argument sort of brings us full circle: the original post was made in response to a policy that the OP felt was too broad and not flexible enough to meet the needs of a specific individual. Now, it is suggested that the problem can be solved by an even broader blanket policy. Maybe we could stop trying to legislate every little thing and just use some common sense and common courtesy?</p>

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<p>Why can’t there be a schoolwide policy–because it’s college, not high school. People expect college students to be and act like adults and if a prof decides on class rules, so be it. She could switch to another professor for that class?</p>

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So here’s my idea: have her bring in a manual typewriter to use for taking her notes. It’s not electronic. The little bell for the carriage return might make the prof see things differently.</p>

<p>More seriously, I agree with those who think recording the lecture would be a sensible compromise.</p>

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<p>OP - has your daughter set up an appointment with the professor and mentioned that she has a problem with dysgraphia and cannot write by hand fast enough or well enough to take notes as the class progresses? Perhaps the professor could put power-points online prior to each class, or help her connect with a classmate who could make copies of their notes? (I am guessing that an Alpha Smart would not work in this particular situation, even if she were to get permission to use one?)</p>

<p>If this is not possible, is there another class she could take to fill the same requirement?</p>

<p>I am not too crazy about the idea of recording lectures, because regularly watching lectures over again for the purpose of taking notes after already attending class (rather than the occasional lecture for a missed class, or to clarify points not clear in notes taken during a particular lecture) could be a major time sink.</p>

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<p>Romanigypsyeyes wins the internet!</p>

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<p>Professors, especially those at research universities aren’t paid to solely be teaching/dealing with undergrads. </p>

<p>Profs at research universities are paid and evaluated mainly on the quality/quantity of research/publications, ability to garner grant money for their research, mentoring of grad students, mentoring the handful of bright undergrads in the department doing undergrad research, and at the near/very bottom…teaching undergrads. </p>

<p>Even respectable/top LACs require and evaluate their tenure track faculty partially on the quality/quantity of their research output and grants though at a lesser rate than those expected of their research university counterparts. </p>

<p>A reason why despite a massive student uproar at a top 5 LAC a decade ago over a friend’s younger sibling’s English Prof being denied tenure despite winning several teaching excellence awards, she wasn’t retained. Her research output was deemed “inadequate” by the standards of the school concerned and she ended up having to leave. </p>

<p>Moreover, if one must use a consumerist model for undergrad education, I’d liken it more to a gym membership where you’re really purchasing the opportunity to be educated and most of the satisfaction still depends on the diligence/commitment of the “consumer/student”. </p>

<p>It’s not like purchasing a product/service at a retail type business at all. </p>

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<p>Because most colleges aren’t K-12 schools where such school-wide policies are expected and tend to be implemented from the top-down. The few colleges I know which do act in such a manner tend to be ones topflight Profs/instructors and academically above-average students strive their best to avoid/transfer out of after a year or two.</p>

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<p>Seems I might be out of step, but this requirement doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. She is a senior in college. She will never be able to effectively attend a meeting without an electronic crutch? Recording the lectures for later review to supplement notes is not that big a deal.</p>

<p>When I hear things like this I wonder how someone will be able to function in the real working world after graduation.</p>

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<p>^In the real world I take notes on my laptop.</p>

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<p>Perhaps its the world I function in? I am not in a big corporate environment (haven’t been for nearly 15 years). Typically my meetings are with lawyers, accounting people, business owners, and department heads. I don’t recall seeing anyone with a laptop at a meeting during the past year. Maybe its the nature of the businesses I work with (winery, construction, farming/ag)? Even when I think back to the continuing professional education classes there were only a few laptops / tablets in use by participants.</p>

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<p>Recording, then transcribing, might be considered a time-sink, but it is already a way that many students with LD’s operate. my sister, with a different sort of LD, got through some really tough classes that way. Hearing the lectures again at her own speed really helped her learn the material. Whatever the LD is, experiencing the discussion/lecture again will help learning–it is not a waste of time.</p>

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<p>I think that this discussion is growing a bit polarized, when the truth is somewhere in the middle. As a teacher at a very competitive prep school, I despise the “consumer” approach to education. It is most often displayed by parents who feel that paying a high tuition entitles them to make the school and its teachers do whatever they think will give their child the best odds of admission to a top ten university. These parents mistakenly believe that by paying our tuition they have purchased a spot at Harvard for their child. Their demands range from inappropriately difficult class schedules (because they believe more APs are the key to college admission) to chances to make up missed or unsatisfactory work. </p>

<p>At the same time, though the OP was the one to introduce the “C word,” I don’t think she is wrong. She is not demanding a higher grade for her daughter. She is not asking that her daughter get a second or third chance to improve her work. She is simply saying that when she pays a great deal of money for this school, she believes that part of what she is paying for is that her daughter have the opportunity to learn to the best of her ability. Though the student in question does not have a current diagnosis, I think this is pretty clearly a disability issue, and that denying the student the ability to use a computer will harm her ability to master the course material to her full potential.</p>

<p>I do agree that it is premature to assume that the professor will not make an exception if asked. I also think that by choosing not to spend the money to maintain an up to date diagnosis, this is exactly the sort of situation one is risking. I would suggest taking the out of date diagnosis to the meeting with the professor and explaining that a more recent diagnosis was not made because of the high cost, and because until this point all of the student’s classes had been run in a manner that would meet the recommendations in her diagnosis. I do have sympathy for skipping the expense of an updated diagnosis; they can run in the thousands of dollars.</p>

<p>As a parent of a student with moderate LDs who is currently deciding between sending her child to an affordable state school with a high student:teacher ratio and an expensive LAC with a 10:1 ratio, I am weighing what that extra $15-20k per year is buying for my child. I expect it to buy smaller classes, more support, more flexibility, more time with professors outside of class, etc. In this respect I do approach college selection as a consumer seeking value. </p>

<p>For those who suggest recording the lecture, without some of the gadgets described in earlier posts, this will be a real disadvantage. Having to listen to a recording in order to take notes is, essentially, being required to attend each class twice. It demands that this student spend several hours of extra time each week just to take notes. What a waste of time that could be better spent completing assignments or participating in worthwhile activities!</p>

<p>As to adapting to the cruel, arbitrary, and inflexible world of the workplace, I assume that the pressure of competition encourages employers to allow employees to use technology that allows them to be more productive. Most of the workplace conflicts around technology that I am aware of involve employees who do not want to use technology that the employer feels will make the employee more productive. Though I can imagine team building and other exercises where one is asked to participate tech free, I have a hard time imagining a major employer disallowing the use of technology for recording and managing information.</p>

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<p>The problem is that allowing this student to maximize her learning detracts from other students’ ability to learn. Even computers that are used appropriately (i.e., to take notes, not to check email or facebook) are distracting to at least some students.</p>

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<p>OP, Hope you have gotten the problem handled by now. I suspect that professors would allow digital audio recorder or pen device described earlier…they just don’t won’t laptops or smartphones used in class (at my Ds school very few prof allow them). If not, did she check to see if lectures are posted. If so she could print them out ahead of time and highlight and make margin notes. My older D has been a notetaker in a class (duplicate paper…she turned notes into professor at end of class and he handed to student after to help remain anonymous) since she has very precise handwriting and good notes, but probably only an option with official disability status. Hope it all works out!</p>

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<p>Based on the OP, it does not appear that this professor has banned tech due to keyboard noise. It seems that the ban was introduced because students were distracted by facebook, etc. during class.</p>

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<p>Mirabile…slightly off topic. My D goes to one of those expensive LACs :slight_smile: where she is notetaker. Don’t know if that’s the accomodation recommended (maybe laptop wouldn’t address the issue) but do know that D said it was pretty easy to figure out who notes were for in a class that small. In a small class, if a student was allowed device other students weren’t I think they would be understanding, but the situation would not be anonymous…school just too small. Don’t know if anonymity is important to your child, but may be something to weigh in. I think other advantages of small on spot on.</p>

<p>I see what you mean about recording, although I think some of them might be uploadable to transcribe. And I agree about real world, at most meetings I attend (mostly church related) the pastors and others are actively using smartphones/tablets to find info, make notes, even send emails out during meeting…it’s a brave new world.</p>

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<p>It would never occur to me that laptops couldn’t be used in a college classroom. My college student has been nearly paperless since 4th grade.</p>

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<p>scmom12 -</p>

<p>Thank you for the heads up re: the interaction of small class size and privacy. Happily, as my son has gained confidence in himself as a student he has started to get more comfortable with publicly “owning” his LDs. This has been a big deal, because his greatest challenge is very hard to talk about. More and more kids are comfortable talking about their ADHD (heck, it seems like more boys have it than don’t). Similarly, disabilities like dyslexia seem to be slowly losing their stigma. When your greatest challenge is slow processing speed, that’s a lot harder to own. After all, for so long “slow” has been a not very subtle euphemism for “stupid.” I am extremely proud of my son’s increasing comfort with sharing information about his disability with others. I understand the importance of the right to privacy, but I think that hiding our disabilities out of shame or fear of rejection and discrimination creates a vicious circle in which the negative stereotypes regarding the disabilities are strengthened. Ultimately, folks have to step up and own their challenges in order to break down these stereotypes, but doing so is scary. It’s a lot to ask of a student whose confidence is fragile.</p>

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<p>Commenting again after my earlier suggestions of the Smartpen…this has been an eye-opening thread. </p>

<p>My dysgraphic DS has been the beneficiary (since third grade) of much of the technology which has apparently now also created problems in the classroom; when he uses his computer to type classroom notes, or takes a photo with his iPhone of the week’s assignments written on a whiteboard, etc. he is able to capture - completely, accurately, and legibly - the information he needs to learn.</p>

<p>But one of the most important benefits of such technology relates to the teachers who make use of it to maximize the learning of their students. This was mentioned upthread regarding many professors posting PowerPoint presentations or classroom notes online in advance for all students, who then use them during the lecture/class for adding emphasis, examples, etc. DS has found that not only do these “programmed notes” meet his needs, but the classroom environment becomes one that has more engaged students, more discussion, and ultimately a higher level of academic achievement. Unfortunately, these teachers who embrace technology are relatively rare: no more than one or two per school year in his experience. Of course he seeks them out; many students do. </p>

<p>DS’ dysgraphia is thought to be related to the extreme treatment required to correct the badly dislocated hips he was born with. A harness immobilized his legs completely 24/7 for his first six months, preventing any kicking. This limited the brain’s “interhemispheric integration” which affected balance, motor processing (especially physical movement in response to sensory information) and spatial relationships.</p>

<p>More than you ever wanted to know about dysgraphia, but the point I want to make is that after years and tens of thousands of dollars of occupational therapy (it took two years to learn how to ride a bike), as a single parent facing college expenses, and with a child who through hard work has managed to almost overcome or work around such hurdles, I can understand the temptation to save a few thousand dollars on yet another round of costly documentation.</p>

<p>Which brings me to the eye-opening part. I too am trying to weigh the benefits of a smaller, more expensive LAC against the higher cost. MirabileDictu, I feel much the same in terms of my expectations, which I believe are reasonable.</p>

<p>Nevertheless, I have re-committed to spending the money on a $2500+ reevaluation this June, even though DS’ current documentation will be only 3 years old at that time. Wherever he plans to enroll (we’ve chosen carefully in this regard) we will visit with the disability support staff this spring. This will require much persuasion with DS.</p>

<p>DS has assumed, based on his experience last summer with two college courses, that in college he will be able to use his laptop for classroom notes. (FWIW, he made two A’s, in microeconomics and government, and used the Evernotes program to help format, organize, highlight and review his notes)</p>

<p>For my part, I see now that I have assumed the smaller class size of an LAC would provide benefits of every kind. Clearly, I did not factor in how the use of technology could be viewed, opposed and/or limited.</p>

<p>This thread HAS become polarized, but even amidst the kerfuffle some helpful information emerged, for which I am grateful.</p>

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<p>Love the gym membership analogy, cobrat.</p>

<p>In our professional development meetings today, we were essentially told that we could manage our classrooms any way we want. Pretty broad.</p>