<p>Is it still possible to get a job as a programmer/software developer even though you don't have a computer science degree? At my current school, i have enough classes to declare a cs minor and im now thinking about majoring in econ instead. If for any reason i decide i want to pursue a career in programming again, would a econ degree make it impossible to get any cs job offers?</p>
<p>"Is it still possible to get a job as a programmer/software developer even though you don't have a computer science degree?"</p>
<p>Yes. Most of the programmers I know do not have CS degrees. Math, physics, and other fields are far more prevalent among my acquaintances and most employers I know PREFER to hire non-CS degreed programmers.</p>
<p>I am under the impression that some students go the route of MIS degree and then get jobs in programming, essentially this frees up some time for them to work on their interests in programming establishing themselves as skilled programmers. Could be the case with any degree I guess, Math and Physics as well as Engineering majors are key players due to their effectiveness solving problems which are very detailed, which is very relevant when it comes to programming.
I guess programming is one of those careers where a degree doesn't help as much as you would think. Proving your worth by contributing while you are still in school could open many doors. Anyone agree?</p>
<p>It is possible. But why would you major in anything else if you want to do software?</p>
<p>Yes, you can get to be a programmer without a CS degree. Infact you can get a CS degree without taking programming-Son is graduating masters of sci, CS, without having taken a single programming course either in undergrad (CMU) or grad (Toronto). Can he program, yes; Enough to get a mechanical engineering and design degrees. </p>
<p>Microsoft, is even spending airfare, Room & Board for him to see India's operation, on a internship/contractor. - He's not interested in a programming career.</p>
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Is it still possible to get a job as a programmer/software developer even though you don't have a computer science degree?
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<p>Heck, not only do you not need a CS degree to become a developer, in many cases you don't even need a degree (in any major) at all. Computers is one of the few fields in which you can still enjoy an excellent career without ever having graduated from college. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Michael Dell all dropped out of college. Mark Zuckerberg, founder of Facebook, is a college dropout and his net worth is reportedly ~$3 billion. Janus Friis, developer and co-founder of Kazaa and Skype, didn't even graduate from high school.</p>
<p>^ not very relevant for the average person.</p>
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you can get a CS degree without taking programming
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<p>tom, I simply can't believe this...</p>
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^ not very relevant for the average person.
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<p>I am simply pointing out that the computer industry is one that is unusually accomodating for people that don't have degrees, but have proper skills. </p>
<p>As a case in point, before founding Apple, Steve Jobs was hired by Atari, and Steve Wozniak was hired by Honeywell. Neither of them had college degrees at the time they were hired. {Woz got his degree years later after founding Apple, and Jobs still doesn't have a degree.} Atari and Honeywell obviously didn't know that Jobs and Woz were going to become highly successful future computer entrepreneurs at the time. They just knew that these guys had useful technical skills regardless of the fact that they didn't have degrees. Similarly, Gates and Allen were hired to write software while they were still in high school. </p>
<p>The truth of the matter is, as long as you have relevant computer skills, you can probably get hired in the computer industry regardless of whether you have a CS degree, or even no degree at all. Don't get me wrong. A CS degree will help, particularly if you want to get into one of the larger organizations. But the fact is, there are loads of small computer companies around who don't really care about degrees and that will happily hire you as long as you have the right skills.</p>
<p>TTL: DS has finished his MS program early. Advising prof is on sabbatical funded by Msft, and ask son to go with him. Msft said OK, they will pay. </p>
<p>As for programming, well a lot of kids learn programming by the program instruction book. DS learned by using the Help functions. He admits that he isn't very good when compared to those who learned CS as a major or who had taken a class. But his experience is not programming but design; Which also says that programmers may not be good at design. </p>
<p>Msft has a lot of positions that are not just programming. They may see this as an opportunity to evaluate someone without a great deal of commitments on both parties.</p>
<p>"tom, I simply can't believe this..."</p>
<p>I didn't say anything</p>
<p>TTL: DS ms degree is in Digital Design in the school of computer science. Some schools call this HCI (Human Computer Interaction), MIT calls it MultiMedia Interaction (MMI). All most all of his cohorts have a specialize degree in CS, he does not. He does have a BS from CMU in mechanical engineering from Carnegie Institute of Technology (CIT) and a BS in HCI from the School of Computer Science (SCS) also CMU. </p>
<p>Maybe a person can broader the definition of computers science into the Art and Use of Computers. An example is Apple, are they a computer company or are they a design and application company. </p>
<p>Programming, in itself, is a hack position.</p>
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The truth of the matter is, as long as you have relevant computer skills, you can probably get hired in the computer industry regardless of whether you have a CS degree, or even no degree at all.
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<p>While this is true for some, it's a misleading statement. The demand for non-degreed computer people is very much dependent on the economic climate. Ten years ago, before the .com meltdown, lots of random people got hired for computer positions. Now I think it's much harder. Once hired, a non-degreed person will not have anywhere near the advancement opportunities that degreed people have. They won't make the money that a degreed person will. I think that's what thisoldman (who I lazily called tom) meant when he said programming is a 'hack position'.</p>
<p>But anyway, I agree with dntw8up (2nd post). Having computer science coursework will qualify you for a good position, IMO. I actually did this as a Physics major, btw.</p>
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While this is true for some, it's a misleading statement. The demand for non-degreed computer people is very much dependent on the economic climate. Ten years ago, before the .com meltdown, lots of random people got hired for computer positions. Now I think it's much harder.
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<p>Uh, actually, I would say that that is a rather misleading statement. </p>
<p>You are correct in that hiring of non-degreed people is dependent on economic conditions. But so is the hiring of degreed people. Back during the dotcom bust, there were plenty of people who had actual CS degrees who couldn't find jobs. One guy I know who had a CS degree from Berkeley lost his developer job and couldn't find another one and was employed for more than a year, and finally ended up training to become a real-estate agent (and, frankly, ended up making more money doing that than he did as a developer, as he took advantage of the housing boom). </p>
<p>Now, I obviously agree that not having a degree at all is a riskier option, and that you probably won't make as much money, all other things being equal. But the presumption is that not all things are *not*equal. For example, I am not just saying that, instead of getting a CS degree, you would sit around for 4 years twiddling your thumbs. Presumably, you would actually be using those 4 years to actually learn practical software and IT skills. I would argue that if you were to do that, then you would probably actually be more employable than somebody who actually got a CS degree. {Let's be perfectly honest - a lot of what you are forced to learn in a CS degree is really not that useful.} </p>
<p>I'll give you a case in point. I know a guy who majored in English at Berkeley. But he also learned Java on the side, first as a hobby, and then to make extra money on the side. By the time he graduated, he had already developed a rather extensive and useful skillset, and a large portfolio of work. Not only that, but he also had developed a pretty good network within the industry. So when it came time to hiring, he was actually getting better software job offers than many of the Berkeley CS students were getting. That's because he actually had skills that companies actually wanted. For example, a lot of companies wanted people to develop Java Servlet-driven websites. That's what his part-time jobs were about, so not only did he have that skill, he could also point to a portfolio of past successful projects. A lot (probably most) of the Berkeley CS grads didn't know how to use Servlets. As a result, those CS grads didn't get hired, and this guy did. </p>
<p>{Now, to be fair, I'm sure that those CS grads could have probably learned Servlets relatively quickly. But that sadly doesn't matter. The CS industry is quite impatient and doesn't really care very much about what you can learn. It only seems to care about what you know right now. They would rather hire a guy who can come in and start designing useful software on day one. }</p>
<p>But all of that is neither here nor there anyway. My salient point is that the computer industry is *more *lenient towards accepting people without degrees than many other industries are. For example, take the oil industry. The truth is, if you don't have a chemical engineering degree (or perhaps a mechanical engineering degree), then you're just not going to get a job as a process engineer in an oil refinery. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter how much you might know about refining. If you don't have the right degree, you're just not going to get hired. Similarly, if you want to work upstream - i.e. as a production engineer on an oil platform, you basically need a technical degree, with a very strong preference for a petroleum engineering degree. If you don't have a technical degree, you're just not going to get hired, even if you know a lot about oil production. Software is not like that at all. You really can compensate for a lack of a proper degree with the right skills.</p>
<p>What do you want to do in your econ degree? If you want to go to investment banking, CS degree is good... you will learn econ stuff after you start working. If you want to do programming (as opposed to just working in software company) I would advise you to major in CS. Pretty much everyone we hire has CS background, given they are young. Things are different for older folks as they have experience and degrees count less.</p>
<p>Sure, you can major in anything and get a job in anything, with very few exceptions. Positions in computing are not an exception to this widely applicable rule.
However, if you know that's what you want to do, it begs the question... why study anything else? Getting a degree in something else may not necessarily make it impossible, but a degree in CS would certainly help, no?</p>
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Sure, you can major in anything and get a job in anything, with very few exceptions. Positions in computing are not an exception to this widely applicable rule.
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<p>Actually, I would say that computing does have an important exception, which is that you don't have to major in anything at all, meaning you don't even have to graduate from college at all (or heck, even graduate from high school), and still get a quite decent job in computing if you have the proper skills. That's just not true in many other careers. In many other careers, you basically need a college degree. You can major in anything, but you still need that degree.</p>