<p>It just seems to me that there are too many variables to make fair comparisons between retention rates - unless, possibly - that the schools one is comparing are very similar. The three factors seem to be entrance requirements, public or private and size.
In NY, SUNY Binghamton has 12,000 students, has become highly selective because of a massive increase in applications and has a 90%+ retention rate which is fantastic. But I can’t imagine that the students get the same “quality” education that they would at a small, private school. Getting in has become so difficult though, that the students who do make it are already very hard working achievers and highly motivated. So I think that it’s the students themselves who are more responsible for the high retention rate rather than the school.
On the other hand, when you attend the engineering info session at Northeastern, where they have a high retention rate, they tell you that they practically hold each freshman’s hand.</p>
<p>By the way, it seems pretty clear that as the state schools become hungrier for revenue, they are increasingly looking for out-of-state or foreign students. I was astonished when talking to someone at UMass engineering who said, quite bluntly, that they have a target year and target percentage of OOS students they want to bring in. Here in NYC, Queens College - a city commuter school - is building a dorm that will be exclusively for foreign students! The whole concept of “state” and “city” schools is being turned upside down.</p>
<p>P.S. Something to make your jaws drop. This is from SONY executive conference:
[YouTube</a> - Did You Know?](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY)</p>
<p>FYI, I looked up UMass’ retention rate - [url=<a href=“Assessment, Survey, and Effectiveness Research (ASER) : Assessment, Survey, and Effectiveness Research (ASER) : UMass Amherst”>Assessment, Survey, and Effectiveness Research (ASER) : Assessment, Survey, and Effectiveness Research (ASER) : UMass Amherst]here[/url</a>] - and for 2007, the last report, it was 86.5%. I don’t see why a few percent would be meaningful, unless of course you fall in that group.</p>
<p>The 6 year graduation rate for UMass is also in this data. It’s 69.1% for the last reported group - which is 2002 entering since that takes you to 2008. That’s also pretty normal. (Binghamton’s is 78%, which is relatively high.)</p>
<p>Understood. However, the Freshman-Sophomore retention rate - specifically in engineering - is 65%. This was told to us by someone in admissions.
How does one find this kind kind of statistic? Also, what is its significance?
(At the Northeastern engineering info session, for example, they described how closely they monitor the freshman and that the F/S retention rate for engineering was pretty high - I can’t remember the exact figure).</p>
<p>If you go to the page I listed and then look at the complete enrollment chart and then find your way down to the engineering section, you see there is a drop from 1st to 2nd year but that the headcount of sophomore engineers is 82% of the freshman headcount. I suppose there may be a few transfers in there as well, both in and out, but not enough to make a big difference either way.</p>
<p>I don’t see retention as being a big deal since some people realize they don’t want to do it. The headcount rises over time - transfers, I’d guess, especially since UMass has a requirement of allowing transfers from the Commonwealth’s 2 year schools. Headcount reaches 90% of the original count by senior year.</p>
<p>BTW, this report lists each school & its individual scores, etc. as well as each major and its application / enrollment numbers. It’s quite interesting.</p>
<p>I’ll have more time to go over it on the weekend - there’s clearly a lot of information to glean from the report.
What you’re saying, then, is that F/S retention rate is a lot of noise over nothing? It’s not a reflection on the program or faculty or caliber of the students?</p>
<p>Well, first, I’m saying the numbers don’t show a retention issue. The overall retention rate isn’t that much higher and engineering is harder than the usual. </p>
<p>Second, if you go through the figures by department within engineering you see that what happens is people sign up for the major as freshman and 15-20% leave. The odds that they’re flunking out are near zero. My guess - and it’s only that - is they realize the competition is strong, that engineering requires a lot of work, and that maybe they’d like to do something else. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few more kids transfer out of UMass, but that they also get some transfers in.</p>
<p>I’m also suspicious of claims about a school doing something special for kids. A lot of that is marketing. When you look at the reality, the schools provide similar services, with the difference that size makes everything somewhat less personal.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, although UMass is a bigger school (UMass 20M/NEU 15M), the incoming Freshman engineering class numbers about 300 while at Northeastern it’s over 400. UMass also claims that the student faculty ratio in engineering is pretty low. So, although NEU is a private school, UMass engineering seems to compare quite favorably (not to mention the cost).</p>
<p>As far as marketing goes, that seems to be the name of the game these days. A lot of people contend that tuition has been driven up to a great extent by excessive spending on superficial or unnecessary programs and staff (and marketing) in an effort to “compete” and move up in the rankings.</p>
<p>You can find the faculty #'s in the list of reports. </p>
<p>I know a couple of Northeastern engineering professors, including the head of one of the departments, and I don’t say anything bad about them.</p>
<p>UMass gets over 2x more research money. You can see the faculty numbers in the ASEE data. Northeastern has 93 total, 43 full, 27 assoc, 23 asst. UMass has 108, with 54 full, 33 assoc, 21 asst. The difference, as you can see, is that UMass has more senior faculty in engineering.</p>