@makemesmart While MIT does not have a “pre-read” process where transcripts, senior class list and test scores are sent to the AO for clearance, it was our experience that the coach asked for that info as part of the recruiting process. I don’t think he would have offered an OV if the academic stats weren’t in the ballpark. Also, I would be much more proactive than just filling in the questionnaire. If your son has not already done so, he should email the coach with times and places at important meets as well as gpa and test score data. I am assuming you have also checked his times against reported times for existing members of the team. https://www.mitathletics.com/sports/m-swim/2017-18/roster
I contacted the Williams admissions office to share the comments made about Williams on this thread and to ask if it is true, and received this reply:
“Thanks for your inquiry and for spotting this misinformation on College Confidential. Williams is entirely need-blind for all domestic students–athlete or non-athlete. Like Bowdoin, however, we are need-aware for non-US citizens. While we provide nearly $2m in aid for international students in each class, the ability to pay potentially may factor into an admission decision if the student–whether a recruited athlete or not–isn’t a U.S. citizen or green card holder.”
If anyone was told otherwise by anyone associated with the college in any way, I think you should contact the admissions office.
Thanks for doing that @TheGreyKing. Seems they have some coaches they need to rein in, as the coaches should not be asking about a recruit’s ability to pay and/or intent to request financial aid.
@BKSquared
Thank you for the info! DS wants to get his first quarter grades out (in a couple of weeks) then contacts the coach. But now I think he should really email the coach ASAP along with the questionnaire. His academics are good and his swim times are already potential scorers in MIT’s conference meet.
With ED deadline coming, I want to re-emphasize the risk of going ED without a slot!
Will the coach clearly tell you that you have his slot or you have to infer that? Bowdoin’s coach is pretty warm towards our DS20 currently. Trying to learn for next year. Lol
You should ask directly if they do not tell you affirmatively. In my kids’ experience, the discussion came up at or just after the OV when the coach said if you ED I will fully support you, and your chances of getting in are over 90% – you need to really do something stupid or submit a terrible app not to get in. Chances are if they are silent, they are still unsure about your kid.
The Nescac coaches will use some terminology like @BKSquared mentioned. They won’t use this language until after a pre-read has been done and the kid has most likely done an overnight visit. My kid had his pre-read done 7/1 and he received positive feedback and was then told to wait on invitation to OV. After my kid did the OV he met with the coach and they went over how everything went and if my son liked it there. Coach then said he would fully support his ED1 or ED2 app. That’s how it has worked for us.
^ Yes, this came up only after the pre-read. Be leery of warm, general positive comments then radio silence/unreturned emails/calls before the ED date. You are not on the recruit list. Also don’t be lulled by a coach saying something to the effect that your best chance of getting in is through ED without him/her saying “with my full support”. If that conversation comes up, ask point blank if you are getting full support/slot, a tip or am I on my own. Don’t be shy and it is not impolitic to insist on a firm answer. They understand the games of musical chairs that are going on.
Yeah, it’s usually crystal clear when coaches REALLY want you.
@BKSquared what sport at Bowdoin?
My kids were softball and baseball, but not Bowdoin recruits.
Softball and swimming…NESCACs…coach can answer all your emails promptly, say “We’re good” and “you’re one of my top prospects, but because your stats are so good, I’m using my limited slots this year on other prospects” or even “I can pick my divers” and your 17 year old child may stubbornly insist that this is fine, especially with the unweighted 4.5 average and the 34 ACT. This is to point out that for Bowdoin, that’s not enough.
Please consider @OldbatesieDoc’s wise counsel if your student athlete is considering applying ED1 to Bowdoin. The Bowdoin coach with whom our daughter was dealing was not forthcoming. “We would love to see you at Bowdoin and will help you get through admissions if you need it” was followed by an “impressive” early read, so impressive that the limited slots were directed elsewhere (sound familiar, @OldbatesieDoc?). After the overnight visit with the team, the coach reiterated her enthusiasm for our daughter and said she expected her to apply ED1, which our daughter happily did, only to be deferred and ultimately denied admission.
The questions you ask a Coach who is actively recruiting you:
- where am I compared to all other athletes you are presently recruiting at my position, sport, event, role?
- what is your batting average at ED1 and ED2, as in, over the past several seasons (because admissions are fluid), how many students did NOT garner admission AFTER a positive and detailed pre-read by ADMISSIONS (not the Coach or Staff)?
- what needs to happen after I apply ED1 for me NOT to gain admission, as in, a new or better prospect with better statistics, or a disciplinary event?
- Can I now buy an XYZ t-shirt, kidding.
These are not Bowdoin-only issues, which frankly, are individual coach issues, where some bear communication responsibilities on both sides. Newer coaches may be less familiar, hold less sway, and their scruples are less vetted in the real world. Presumably, a Fine institution would vet these at the AD level, but anyone at a new job is trying to make a mark for him/herself, and it can be at an uninformed kid’s expense.
Lastly, manage your timeline from far to near, working backwards, and allow time for final reads, as in S1 or Q1 official grades if needed, and stay in contact. Any email or text (preferred to have it in writing) or call not returned in 3 days or less with a few weeks before ED is a sign of concern.
Just want to chime in and say that I think it is always a big red flag if a NESCAC coach says that the student/athlete should apply ED, but the student’s academic stats are so high that the coach doesn’t need to use a slot for him/her. If the athlete is high on the coach’s list, the coach is not going to gamble on letting the athlete go through the admissions process without the protection of a slot.
Good luck to everyone!
At Bowdoin, it seems like other non institutional needs trump athletics in the admissions process, where at other schools coaches/athletics have more influence. Bowdoin also has a big diversity push in athletic recruiting.
I also have to say that DD offered to apply ED to Amherst and the extremely ethical coach said, and I quote, “It’s tough for girls for ED at Amherst…” DD was her 4-5 recruit, no slot. Ended up waitlisted thru RD so ? woulda coulda shoulda? We will never know. Luckily she’s very happy where she landed, and playing on a great team. But it was a bumpy ride.
Haverford, if I recall correctly. Congratulations to her on that. Wow, such a fantastic school. My daughter loved it when we toured and it’s at the top of her list. (I am trying not to wear my W&L belt these days.) I’m curious, @OldbatesieDoc , Haverford has a reputation of coaches having little to zero influence. Is that congruent with your experience? In this category of school the athlete card seems so critical and we are under the impression that Haverford values it differently or not at all. Was there any sort of tip/slot conversation? Different rules than the NESCAC’s, I realize, but wondering about the process and degree of influence. Apologies if you answered elsewhere.
Last warning…don’t do it!