Proud Parent, Average Student, Solid Choices

<p>OP,</p>

<p>It looks like you have a wonderful son. Congratulations!</p>

<p>a word of caution. As someone already mentioned, employers are paying close attention to the GPA. So unless your son is going to make a living playing sports, I think he needs to pay a lot of attention to GPA once he goes to college.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I am hearing a lot of examples of employers asking for SAT when they hire fresh college grads. Sports or not, I have the feeling that the SAT score around 1500 is not going to go well, since some/many people seem to believe that unlike GPA (effort), SAT reflects more of native capabilities… If I were you, I would seriously consider advising my son to practice SAT and then take it and score well before graduating from the high school, even if the admission offer is already done deal with the current score or even if it’s past the admission season. It is an insurance for a future prospect. Your son may not have to deal with any employer asking for SAT, but you never know.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>P.S. I completely agree that college admission officers will say ANYTHING to encourage more students to apply so that they can reject more kids and lower the acceptance rate to boost their “prestige” image.</p>

<p>Yes…some employers are looking at GPAs… </p>

<p>My DS1 ( a junior in college ) has to annually have his transcript sent to his internship. I know that’s par for the course for internships, but I imagine that once he graduates, they’ll ask for his final transcript to determine whether they will hire him full time and to determine salary. </p>

<p>I also imagine that if he applies elsewhere, they will also want to see his transcript.</p>

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<p>I’m a bit confused in that your DS does not sound average in any way. He has certainly had above average opportunities, is an above average athlete, has above average leadership skills and an above average work ethic…so the only area in which it seems he may be average is academics, but still, you really don’t give details.</p>

<p>So what’s the point here? This is a hard working, talented kid that will hopefully enjoy the success he deserves.</p>

<p>ROTC where on earth are employees ‘asking for SAT scores?’ I work for a fortune 50 global company that recruits in every nook and crany of the globe for employees and SAT isn’t even in the mix. SAT is not even on the radar screen in a huge chunk of this country and is not necessary for most if not all of the colleges anymore so I question your off the cuff comment.</p>

<p>I’m sorry, but being a recruited athlete puts an applicant into a whole different category of acceptable stats.</p>

<p>Coaches do not arrange “face to face” meetings with deans for “average” kids. Coaches arrange them for potential athletic recruits.</p>

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<p>It’s been a while back, but I’ve heard Google did ask for SAT scores.</p>

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<p>Very similar, but 2 different schools</p>

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<p>I never said ALL employers are doing this. your company may not be one of the companies with this practice. Don’t confuse your company as the totality of all employers. For instance, many tech firms do this. Many firms in the financial industry also.</p>

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<p>Perhaps many wannabe tech firms do this. I know my BIL works for a well known IT powerhouse directing whole technology strategies for the critical operations of several Fortune 500 companies. He has an associates degree from a community college and never took the SAT. Nobody has ever asked for a test score from him.</p>

<p>Aside from this, perhaps some misguided HR departments use SAT scores to filter out the “less than perfect” resumes for ordinary “commodity” types of entry-level positions where they have hundreds of qualified applicants. </p>

<p>However, when you are a hiring manager, you don’t look for the things to eliminate candidates, you look for the things that are going to make a candidate successful - track record of accomplishment beats a test certification every time.</p>

<p>As for the financial industry, he’d be better off worrying about his credit score than his SAT score. A poor credit score to a financial company indicates a person with a greater potential to be tempted to engage in fraudulent activities due to financial stress and/or a person who does not keep his/her own finances in order and thus not a candidate to keep a corporation’s finances in order.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, worrying about your SAT scores is EXACTLY what the OP (and all of us who agree) dislikes about the CC environment. </p>

<p>To the OP… You have all the right priorities for your son. You are giving him the experiences in life (boarding school) that prepare him for independent living in college. You are trusting in him to live a balanced life (enjoying college) so as to develop his strengths (leadership, etc.) to make him the best (fill in his name here) that he can be - not some wannabe credential-chaser. </p>

<p>And I understand your assessment of “average”. His grades and test scores, when compared to the college population as a whole, are average, academically speaking. The other stuff (leadership, athletics, etc.) are the things that will lead to his success at college. His school list will be challenging for him, but his work habits will more than make up for innate ability in assuring his success.</p>

<p>You have much to be proud of, most of which is your approach to parenting.</p>

<p>OT – I worked for a major consulting firm and was asked for SAT scores (including the splits). Also had to take math and grammar/editing tests just to get to the next round of interviews. DH also was asked about SAT and LSAT scores.</p>

<p>I understand that I touched the raw nerve for some people when I mentioned some employers are asking for SAT scores. It’s funny that some people sound rather outraged as if I were raining on OP’s parade or denigrating or belittling his son’s achievement. Anything but! I thought he did a fantastic job with his son and I think is pretty stupid that companies are asking for SAT scores when they have college GPA and other things to consider. I was simply cautioning OP so that his son has an option to do something about it just in case he encounters future employers with this request.</p>

<p>Whether we think it’s silly or stupid is besides the point. If some employers are requesting it, then either you have a choice to not to work for those employers or you could prepare for it just in case you may actually want to work for one of them. Here is one thread I found right on CC where this issues is discussed. I am sure there are more if one spends the time to research it (note the last post on this thread) </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/investment-banking/739798-does-age-matter-25-too-old.html?highlight=SAT#post1062855329[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/investment-banking/739798-does-age-matter-25-too-old.html?highlight=SAT#post1062855329&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also note that for many great positions right out of college, you need solid internship experience while at college, and many companies are looking for SAT scores when they evaluate candidates for internship position. </p>

<p>Again, don’t shoot the messenger!!! If you don’t like their policy, don’t work for them.</p>

<p>The SAT is only taken by about 50% of college bound kids. I highly doubt a reputable company would want to eliminate candidates simply because they chose one standardized test over another or came through the system in an unconventional manner. I think the comment is either somewhat of a relatively tiny blip on the hiring radar screen and not a broad generalization that the OP should be concerned about at this point in their HS student’s life. As someone pointed our HR recruiters internal and external are measured by how many jobs they “fill” and how quickly they “fill” jobs, there are no brownie points given for eliminating candidates.</p>

<p>Regarding company interview and hiring practices. I own two small very successful companies one in technical sales, the other is a support company. I personally attend college job fairs when we need to hire new employees. I have interviewed many graduates and have helped many more with employment opportunities. I have never asked a single candidiate for grades or SAT scores, and really could care what institution they attended or graduated from. We look for real world skills, organization, communication, work ethic, independence, and sincerity for the opportunity. It amazes me how many kids who I have interviewed think they are entitled because they have attend prestigiuos schools and excelled in the classroom, somewhere along the line parents and or schools need to make graduates aware that need to develop these critical skills.</p>

<p>OP - do make sure he has good safeties - I didn’t read all the way through the thread (ok I should be working) so I’m sure others have said the same. Top LACs turn away top students ALL the time, and some ‘average’ students do get accepted with a great hook of some type, but it never is a sure thing. I believe more than anything that hard work and a good personality are the biggest predictors of success but even though I’m an incurable optimist - even the admissions interviewer saying you are definitely in - you are exactly our type of student, etc. does not mean you will get in - only the acceptance letter can say that. My D (who by the way had all the top stats was told that and ended up with a WL at that school) - fortunately sanity always prevails at our household and we had some extraordinary matches and safeties lined up - please do the same! Your son sounds amazing and deserves the best, including great options.</p>

<p>ROTC where on earth are employees 'asking for SAT scores?</p>

<p>My friend’s son recently completed the two year entry program at Goldman Sachs. Around the one year mark he started interviewing for a job that would start when the program ended. There were many financial companies that would not even talk to him because of his relatively low SAT math score. I can’t remember now if the cut off was 700 or 750. I was really surprised to hear about this as I had no idea that SAT scores could matter after college.</p>

<p>I agree, he is aware tha he cannot take anything for granted. After considering his options, visiting schools and going on overnights, he will be applying to a total of 9 schools. This might sound a little self serving, but he said by applying to 9 schools he can play the game as good as they can…aargh…</p>

<p>This is his plan:</p>

<p>3 LAC’s are within his academic range (lacrosse hook, really likes the schools)
2 LAC’s are reach (lacrosse hook, somewhat likes the schools)
1 State School is reach (no Lacrosse, loves the school)
2 State Schools are within his academic range (no lacrosse, loves the schools).
1 State School (slam dunk safety, lacrossse hook, likes the school and well within his academic range)</p>

<p>Hopefully his strategy will pay off…I sort of have a problem with how these kids have to apply to so many schools, it seems rather crazy, but every kid has a different situation and has to maximize his chances of acceptance based on the competition.</p>

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<p>Other options:</p>

<p>1) Take the SAT again when you’re in college, and use that score for future employers or internships.</p>

<p>2) Lie. If you had an outstanding college career but your SATs were horrid, just put down that you got a 2050 instead of 1580. </p>

<p>An employer can check college GPA, can check that you got a degree, can check your references and your credit score. Checking your SAT scores, not so easy. In fact, the only way a potential employer can check your scores is by asking you to send them a copy of your score report…which would have to go through your hands. </p>

<p>I’m not really advocating lying about this, but I’m convinced it’s happened since it would be easy to do and hard to catch.</p>

<p>As a caution, please, be on a safe side, while planning to do varsity in college. My D has been involved with her sport on competitive team since age 5 thru graduating from HS. She realized that college academics will reguire commitment beyond HS, so she did not pursue varsity at college and turned down all places / coaches that were after her. She has started on intramural team her college freshman year. All her teammates who started varsity, very accomplished in sport, some State champs, most have been in sport from age 5 - 7, have quit varsity in college because of academics. Some of them lost athletic scholarships if they had it originally (Div. I). They just did not see doing both, but most continue using it as a workout. None of them are at any elite colleges, all at state schools, coming from either private or public HSs. D. quit her intramural team in sophomore year because of academics and a lot of other commitments like minors, job, volunteering, sorority board, Med. Research lab internship…etc. She needs to have GPA very close to 4.0 for her goals and so far (junior) she has been able to accomplish it. She also needs and wants to be involved in other activities. She is using her sport for workouts and continue loving it, but she knows that she cannot be involved any more with it.<br>
It is very good when kids are prepared to work hard in college. They also need to be realistic about what they can fit in 24 hours. I have to remind my D. that she does need to sleep at least few hours every day. Please, remind yours the same.<br>
As a point of refernce, D. has graduated #1 in her HS class from small selective private school and currently is at state college where she found her classes to be very very challenging. She did not need athletic scholarship since she has received Merit scholarships at every school that she has applied.</p>

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<p>I can’t believe this is the level we are stooping to. Why stop there? Let’s also start a ponzi scheme. Based on this logic, the only crime Madoff committed is the fact that he did not do it flawlessly enough not to be caught. Don’t tell me that this is a “victimless” sin. The person who does this stole an employment opportunity from someone who played a honest game. Furthermore, a young employee who got the position through outright lying is the kind of a person who can evolve into the likes of Madoff.</p>

<p>In addition to the ethical/moral issue, some employers do “spot/random” check by asking a random sample of their new hires to supply corroborating documents. There is a real serious and devastating consequence to being caught like this. I recently heard of a case of a senior executive who fabricated a portion of his resume, got caught through a random check and very disgracefully dismissed from a very well known company.</p>