<p>I'm brand new to this whole testing scene, unless you want to set the way-back machine for about 35 years ago.</p>
<p>When is it that students generally take these various tests? In ye olde days the PSAT was for getting into a private school or a boarding school...or as a warm-up for the eventual SAT...but now it seems that the world has changed. </p>
<p>Would one of you mind giving me a mini tutorial? </p>
<p>Appreciate your help!</p>
<p>Quick answer- PSAT is still a warm up for SAT. However, it is used to designate National Merit Semifinalist status when it is taken in junior year. Many schools offer it to sophs and juniors. It is somewhat indicative of future SAT scores but can certainly be improved upon.
SAT is used for college admissions. (not to be confused with SSAT which is the admission test for many private schools, along with ICEE test). SAT is changing from a 1600 total to a 2400 total effective with the March 2005 test. Many kids take it in January, March or May of junior year and then again in October of senior year if they want to try to improve. There are prep courses offered for SAT and various ways to prepare for the test. ACT is another option which many colleges accept. It tests differently than the SAT, but I won't go into that now.
Check out collegeboard.com for more information on the tests. K.</p>
<p>PSAT - taken in 10th and 11th grade, 10th grade simply practice for SAT, 11th grade it is the qualifying teset for the National Merit Scholarship Competition.</p>
<p>SAT's - taken junior year (I took it in January and then again in June, which meant I didn't have to worry about taking it senior year, although many people retake it in October), this is the big big big on that colleges love and students hate.</p>
<p>SAT II's - subject tests, taken when a student has completed his/her study of the subject, should only be taken in subjects the student is good in, a minimum of three is recommended, including at least one math (writing probably is not as important now that the SAT has writing)</p>
<p>SAT II timing depends on your child's school's curriculum, but generally:
The sciences should be taken after completing the science (although if the student is planning to take a more advanced course in the science, it can be put off until then).
Math IC covers three years of high school level math, up to pre-calculus.
Math IIC covers four years of HS level math, including pre-cal
It's probably a good idea to take the English ones Junior year, at least here in NY where we have an English regents that year.</p>
<p>But it really depends on when your child is ready. They can be taken anytime from Spring of freshman year until Fall of senior year.</p>
<p>SATII are the old achievement tests, which some college require in addition to the SATI. For example, for the matriculation class of 2006, the Univ of Calif. will require the new SATI and two SAT-II's, of the students choice. Of course, they (as many other colleges), will accept the ACT + Writing in lieu of the SATI.</p>
<p>Kids should take the SATII's at the end of the year in which they take an academic course. So, when a kid takes honors/AP US History, then take the SATII US History test at the end of that year (May or June test date). Also, check with your teachers for course content and how it aligns (or does not) with the SATII. In our HS, for example, Frosh World History is a great class, but not good prep for the SAT II W.History test since it doesn't cover the same material.</p>
<p>" Also, check with your teachers for course content and how it aligns (or does not) with the SATII." Good advice, I'm sure.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for your responses. My daughter currently attends a private school but is thinking of switching to our local public high school. It's been suggested that she consider the SAT II in Biology (because she is taking Bio this year) and, in addition, that take the NY Regents in June to get credit if she goes the public high school route. </p>
<p>If someone takes an SAT II and does not do well do the results end up on their permanent record? </p>
<p>At this stage, my daughter thinks that it would be "fun" to see where she stands by taking this...so that's one of the reasons I'm asking.</p>
<p>Again, thanks so much you all!</p>
<p>This is such a good question. BLUMNI, I almost blew it last year because I had never heard of SAT IIs and thought the SATs were given at school. My college app/test taking lightbulb came on in March of Jr year...and I had to scramble to get son set up for testing. I had no idea what to do and son said "I need a tutor! Everyone has tutors" (tutors were like cell phones...everyone had to have one) ....ok, so tutor it was. We caught up and did ok. But, man, I wish I had known everything about a year ahead of when I did.</p>
<p>Blumini:</p>
<p>All scores for SAT and SAT-IIs show up on the record. There is quite a bit of flux at the moment , especially about SAT-IIs, given the introduction of the new SAT and the elimination of the SAT-II Writing test after this month. </p>
<p>Students can get a sense of how they would do on the SAT or SAT-IIs by taking practice tests under actual testing conditions. It saves money, and it does not get into the permanent record! </p>
<p>The best time to take the SATII is after taking an Honors class in the appropriate subject or, better, still, the AP course in that subject (the exception is Physics). </p>
<p>The College Board website has lots of useful information. Check it out.</p>
<p>Marite:</p>
<p>why not physics II after AP Physics?</p>
<p>blumini: Being a left coaster, I don't know much about Regents. But, do I think its better to spend the money and a the time preppring for a real test (CB has realistic practice test books, and an online ver), instead of taking a test "for fun." With the SAT, all current and prior scores are sent to the colleges you designate, even the ones that were taken "for fun." It's much better to take the test when a kids feels comfortable, confident, and ready, IMO. :)</p>
<p>The SAT-II Physics curriculum covers a broader range of topics than AP-Physics C which covers only Mechanics and Electricity and Magnetism. As well, some teachers manage to cover mostly Mechanics (students can take the AP exam in either or both of these topics). It is better aligned with AP-Physics B which many colleges do not give credit for, though it is useful for premed.
My older S signed up for SAT-II Physics after taking Honors Physics. He found one month before the exam that the teacher had not intention of teaching optics, which was one of the topic on the SAT-II curriculum. I'm told that many teachers do not cover all the topics on the SAT-II curriculum, either.</p>
<p>My kids have experienced what Marite just mentionned -- Honors Science course doesn't always cover what is on the SAT II. What I've seen here is that the kids who are really into science usually do pretty well on the SAT II in Chem or Bio by studying on their own. The other kids benefit from some tutoring sessions. I had one who excelled and another who did so so after tutoring.</p>
<p>marite:</p>
<p>thank you. My S is taking Physics B (C not offered at our HS).....should we consider not taking SATII Physics? As a reference, I heard that last year some of our seniors did well on the SAT-II, after AP, with scores in the 700's.</p>
<p>The important thing to note about the SAT II's is that if you're attending a reasonably good school, and doing well in an honors class, you can get some extremely good score with a moderate about of prop (and in some cases, none at all). Taking a practice test about four-six weeks before the real thing will give you a pretty good sense on what needs to be reviewed, polished up, whatever. </p>
<p>Marite mentions that all courses do not cover all possible material in the subject tests. It is important to look at how the raw score scales to the reported score - and whether a missing chunk of knowledge is really serious of not (if it is, you need to take another test, or prep more). </p>
<p>The other thing to remember about the SAT II's is that a much smaller segment of the population takes them (except in CA). In general, it will be the top kids (except at private schools). So the percentages look odd - for example, the infamous math IIC equates a 750 with a 74th percentage, and I think an 800 is 90th of a select group.</p>
<p>If you go to this link: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2004/reports.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2004/reports.html</a></p>
<p>you will see the listings for the state and national reports on SAT (I and II) scores. These show percentiles, number taking, and all kind of useful stats.</p>
<p>Many elite schools ask for three SAT2s. (The requirement for the SAT2 in writing may vanish now that there's a writing section on the SAT1. Whether schools will still want 3 SAT2s is up in the air at this point.) While it makes sense to take the SAT2 when completing the relevant course--bio, chem, physics, etc.--they are wide-ranging tests and cover many areas that students may not have covered. Students should take a practice test first.</p>
<p>The SAT2 in history is another one that covers a lot of ground.</p>
<p>The SAT2 in literature, however, is based on readings that are part of the test; a student who does well in English classes should do well on this.</p>
<p>The SAT2s in languages are limited to a very small group. My D, for example, took French with Listening--along with 2500 students in the whole country. However, some colleges use them for placement.</p>
<p>Students should look at the most rigourous requirements of the colleges they are considering, and try to take the needed SAT2s in June of their junior year. It used to be a math SAT2, the writing SAT2, and another one---but the need for the writing SAT2 (as I said) may change.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your detailed feedback and, dmd77, for that link to the website, as well. I now already have a better understanding of things and realize that taking the SAT II in Bio for our daughter to get a sense of where she is does not seem to be a very wise choice. She's not in an honors course, though mid year they realized she should have been. Frankly I don't see her heading down a science based road in the future...unless it's towards psychology, but don't know how integral a Bio SAT II will be for that. More food for thought.</p>
<p>Again - thank so much for all your pointers and insights. I'll be reading up via that link over this weekend as I believe we're in for quite a bit of snow here. ;-)</p>
<p>bluebayou:</p>
<p>As I mentioned, SAT-II Physics is better aligned with AP-Physics B, so youg child should do well in the SAT II provided that the course covers all the topics. Take a look at the CB description and talk to the teacher about what s/he plans to cover. Normally, students take AP in May and SATII in June, with no more prep.</p>
<p>Blumini, unless kids are science kids, or have taken an AP or honors science class, they should probably stay away from the science APs, in other words, don't take the SATII Bio after a standard 9th grade biology class. Most kids who take SATII sciences take them "in concert" with the AP test, that is the same year - even then as you can see with the Physics discussion, there are issues about content of the test, and the curve on the math and science tests can be killer.
Another issue if your child is a soph or younger particularly, I wonder if a lot of schools will change their SATII requirements after they get a year or two of experience with the new SAT. Some have already changed their requirements, and I think this will be in flux for the next couple of years - keep an eye on that situation, using 2-3 schools you thnk your chikd might want to attend as a baseline.</p>
<p>Thanks Greensleeves, I'm definitely glad I asked these questions, though one would hope that if we actually got in the mode to go about registering or thinking about it that I would ask my daughter's school. ;-) Nevertheless, I do like to research things ahead of time so that I can be a "knowledgeable consumer"...which is one of the reasons why I was looking around for a site like this. </p>
<p>Oddly, it was a former head of guidance who suggested our daughter "might" want to take the SAT II...but perhaps I misunderstood her and she meant she "might" want to look at the SAT II book. </p>
<p>I think daughter will stick with taking the NY State Regents Bio exam in June so if she decides to make the move to the public school for 10th grade, at least she'll have that Regents credit.</p>
<p>Hmm, maybe I should start a thread on "NY State Regents" and what the value of all that really means in the big picture of college acceptances? (wish I had an emoticon for rolling eyes right now ;-) )</p>
<p>Dmd, thanks for posting this link: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/about/n...04/reports.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/about/n...04/reports.html</a></p>
<p>In addition to what you mentioned, one can use the link to find out what are the top university choices of students from one's state. This info is important because many colleges are looking for geographic diversity. If one's student wants to go to a university that's of interest to few people from one's state, that might be a boost for their admissions and merit aid chances.</p>
<p>Thanks, Marite. Since UC's require at least two SATII's, S has to take another SATII in June (math IIc and/or history), so I was thinking he might try the SATII Physics on the May test date. This year, the AP Physics exam is on Monday, so he'll have been studying anyway. My only great hesitation is that he has another AP test Friday afternoon (prior to the Sat SAT test date) -- the Friday test in his favorite subject so it s/b ok, but I worry about burn out and too many tests in too short a time! The weeks' schedule is Tues pm - AP Test; Fri pm - AP test, Sat morn-SATII Physics, Mon pm, AP Physics. Yikes, it hurts to think about it. (Just to add insult to injury, our HS has the state exams two weeks prior to AP testing, and the HS gets mighty cranky if the kids blow them off.)</p>
<p>Greensleaves: you raise a great point, the curves on the science SATII's can be pretty tough, and even honors Bio would not likely adequately prepare a Frosh for that SAT II test. For example, our friend took the SATII Physics last year right after the AP Physics test -- if I recall, her score was a 750 or 760, but it was only ~85%. The SATIIb math is similarly curved, you can only miss on (I think) for a perfect score, but missing one more drops the score 30-40 points. The SATIIc math has a much more generous curve, but the test is harder (includes Alg II and trig). So, kids who are strong on math are probably better off with the IIC test, IMO. Finally, rumor on the SoCal streets is that the Spanish SATII is particularly difficult for non-native speakers (another brutal curve), but a breeze for any kid who speaks espanol at home.</p>
<p>I joined CC a few weeks ago but this is my first post. My D is in 9th grade and would do better having a tutor or taking a course than going online to prepare for the PSAT Exam. How would you suggest I find a tutor or PSAT prep course? Thank You</p>