Psat scores in-need sage advice

Parents Forum
1

<p>If you have anything else to do today,this should be least important on your list. It is really not a problem, more of a "have you been here and how did you get out" kinda thing. PSAT scores were delivered today (as expected) at D's school. I did my best to prep her for what I thought was almost certain disappointment. She went out the door knowing she had flubbed something on both the CR and writing. So , I expected "commended" type scores and was secretly praying she hit 200 (so she wouldn't panic)-65 ,70, 65 was my guess-timate.</p>

<p>So about 10 I get this voicemail. "I DID make an A in Calculus but I screwed up the PSAT and I'm so angry. I missed one math and that was a 76 and I made a 67 on the other two. I'm hosed." I left a return message saying "That's great. I was thinking 200+ and you hit 210. Fantastic. You are right NMF is out the window but remember ,you'd have made the historical NMF cut-off in several of the states with colleges high on your list. " At lunch, I get this reply-"Dad, It s#@$@ and I sc#@$!-up. We'll talk about it tonight."</p>

<p>Gimmee some words, people. If I care too much-that's bad. If I care too little, I'm ridiculing her value judgment. I really don't think this is that awful but it appears she does. Why does she? Is it (NMF status) some litmus test to these uber-kids? Here, let me dunk you in this academic ability water and see if you turn blue. Jiminy. The two PSAT related scholarships with PSAT score prerequisites were met by a bunch. (190)</p>

<p>She's missed out on things she's wanted before (maybe this much, probably not more). If the truth be known she prepared maybe 5-6 hours -total for this specific test. I'm planning on going in with-"There is room for improvement and now we know to concentrate your prep on those areas." I also ordered her a subscription to two news magazines and we'll be visiting Xiggi-land here muy pronto. Any other suggestions?</p>

<p>At least on the 22nd she's only scheduled for math IIC or it would be getting rough around here. BTW-miss one and get a 76? That's some serious grading curve. Oh,well . I'm happy with it and as we know ,that's the important thing. LOL.</p>

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<p>Congrats on you D getting such a great score. Really she would be NMF if you lived elsewhere. I can tell you that it just doesn't matter. My son truly blew the PSAT. Twice. He took it as a practice test as a sophomore and didn't do well. He took a course offered at his school for the real one and did worse. We are talking about a 55, 65, 45 type score. So we had to really work on those SATs and he blew the lid off of those with close to perfect numbers on all three corresponding sections. He had the highest numbers for those 3 sections in his school and anyone close to him made NMF cutoffs in the PSAT. A couple of those kids were not "distance" test takers and did not do so well on the SAT1s. I worked with one young lady a couple of years ago, tutoring her endless hours in a short period of time because she made a tough NMF cutoff for the PSAT and then did not hit 1300 on the SAT1. Twice. Even with a ridiculous amount of tutoring and she was a worker, she did not make the 1400 mark. </p>

<p>So you have plenty of time to help her prepare. I recommend a tutor for the areas where she needs to bring up and lots of practice tests with the new SAT1.</p>

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<p>Curmudgeon:</p>

<p>Unlike your well-reasoned response, I was the hard-acre in our household, when kid's score came home, which were similar to your D's - yeah, I know, 'bad' dad. But, after realizing that the kid scored 98 percentile nationally, it's hard to complain since kid didn't practice that much, either. Moreover, that projects into a 2100, which is pretty impressive, again, w/o much prep. She should be excited that its only a 'practice' test that can be used to study for the real thing (in March?).</p>

<p>The only real impact that I can gather is possible loss of scholarship money at those schools that are trying to raise their profile by throwing merit money at NMF's (see other thread to where they go). Some colleges chase NMF's for the prestige factor, but not Ivies. However, Commended may still earn scholarship money if you happen to be associated with a Corporate sponsor of the program. (I was such associated, which explains my disappointment, which I got over once I found out that S still has a shot at some money as a Commended.)</p>

<p>D should not despair about missing one math problem, even if simple mistake. Many kids posted on the cc SAT site that they missed only the first math problem, which is supposed to be the easiest; imagine their frustration! The math curve was tough because of the shortness of the test; fewer questions means each one is more important. Miss two, and a kid gets a 72. The SAT is much longer, so you can still miss a few and get an 800 -- thanks to recentering.</p>

<p>The Xiggi method is definitely the way to go. Upon later review, my S still could not solve a math problem -- he was over analyzing it, and trying to make up numerous formulas to which he could "plug" in answer and solve. I asked how he would solve the problem if x = 0? Aha, with that assumption, I solved the problem by counting on my fingers in ten seconds, and the answer was immediate. Didn't require time for plug-in solutions to see which would work.</p>

<p>Xiggi -- do you tutor?</p>

<p>Suggest you obtain SATII practice books for Math 2c. Purchase the Real SAT's and the the online program ($60) from CB, and just practice a little each day. </p>

<p>Good luck. (Perhaps we could compare notes after March, if your D is taking the new SAT then.)</p>

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<p>The Scylla and Charybdis of parenting. She's a junior, no, and takes the SAT 1 this spring? The SAT eclipses the PSAT, in fact the PSAT is properly presented as a practice test, anyway. So, she's got a great opportunity to improve, and the PSAT can be treated as a little wake up call, that tells her what she needs to work on (not that her scores are bad). If Xiggi were here, he'd probably recommend buying her a copy of 10 Real Sats; taking 10 tests and reviewing them thoughtfully can greatly improve a smart kid's score. PSAT counts for little or nothing on college apps, anyway. Just stay positive and point out that if she really cares she can improve on the real test.</p>

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<p>Our daughter is an outstanding student, top 5% in her class, taking a very aggressive courseload. Her PSAT scores were not all that high (71st%ile). I was actually surprised by the number of "braggers" she has run into in the last couple of weeks since the scores were released...friends saying things like "I was in the 98th %ile...how about you?" DD was feeling very down and out. I told her she is under no obligation to respond other than to congratulate the other person. She does not have to tell her scores and she should not be embarrassed by them either.</p>

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<p>I've been there but I don't have any advice since nothing I said helped. In my case it was my child's SAT scores that upset her. As with your daughter, the scaling or grading was unbelievable--2 incorrect answers yielded an 800; 3 incorrect answers yielded a 770. I validated her feelings by saying things like "I know how disappointed you are," but I never agreed that there was anything wrong with her scores. I also tried "It's only three hours out of your life, and if any set of numbers reflects your abilities it's your transcript, not a standardized test score." I think she agreed in theory but it didn't really seem to make her feel better. And I agree with you that much of the pressure on these kids is internal, and that makes it very hard to deal with.</p>

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<p>I must be missing something here. I don't know why everyone is so worked up over the PSAT. For 99% of the kids it doesn't mean anything. It is a practice SAT. It gives you some idea of where your weak areas are, IF you want to prepare for SAT. My D, who is a soph at a very selective school, didn't prep or concern herself at all about PSAT. She made Commended, but didn't give it a second thought. S, a junior, just got his scores back and was just under 200. The weak score was writing, and he is a fabulous writer with good grammar and mechanics. He has done some, but not much, prep for January SAT. Depending on how that goes, maybe he will prep more for May. I doubt it. He aspires to highly selective schools, but has a lot of other things going for him and just doesn't want to focus on standardized testing. He goes to a prep school with strong academics, and none of the kids are talking about PSAT at all. As we saw from the recent ED round, these scores are not the whole picture.</p>

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<p>We had a very similar situation two years ago, Cur (there's a nickname!). S hit 218, good for Commended only in our state. He didn't study at all, but truthfully, we're not big fans of standardized test studying. He found that cutoff thing very frustrating, but ultimately, it didn't change anything. Despite the no-study policy, he ended up with a SAT 1 + SAT2 writing combo of 227. In the end, he's at the school he wanted to be at.</p>

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<p>Those are all good suggestions. D's math miss was on a grid-in and she blew some "arithmetic" thing-y she says was beyond stupid but she knew it was wrong when she left the test. Lord knows, I don't want her trying to explain it to me! I just start loudly humming old Creedence Clearwater tunes when she tries to tell me about math problems. That usually shuts her up and she goes away after a while.</p>

<p>I really don't think it's going to be that bad but I REALLY don't want to go over the test with her. Not tonight, anyway. That usually involves me saying something she hears as "Well, are you really that stupid? What species of lower ape are you?" Which then turns into.... huh....maybe it IS going to be bad. I think I'll go bowling. I hate bowling. Think.Think. Think.</p>

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<p>When someone feels bad, you have to acknowledge the feeling. It is a real feeling whether you think it is reasonable to have that feeling or not. I would tell my child, I am sorry you were disappointed. Some people will brag with scores like that while other pine....others just leave the scores and the mail on the counter not really caring.</p>

<p>My experience with the PSAT is it is a mild predictor of SATs and a porch light to all the college advertisement moths. Colleges are more interested in SATs and as I remember, when I proposed to my wife..neither of our scores came up in the conversation so how important can they really be?</p>

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<p>I think they forgot to ask me about my PSAT when I applied to law school!</p>

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<p>Curmudg</p>

<p>A) Do not despair, if this is the only time over the next year that you have to use the shift key and the top row of the keyboard while dealing with your DD, it will be a rousing success! A hint, from here on, you can doing NOTHING right. Accept it, live with it, and do the best you can. Within 48 hours of her college acceptance my daughter was a different person.</p>

<p>B) This IS a litmus test, but what is being measured is A) How badly does she "want it" whatever school or score "it" may be, and, possibly, B) Her familiarity with the SAT.
You may have to get out of the way a little bit on "A". She has to do her prep work, you can buy the books, provide the online program, and the support, but you just can't make her study - sounds like she will internally motivate, though, so I wouldn't fret too much yet. MAth IIc and SAT math are not the same animal anyway. As far as standardized test ability, you can judge that based on how she has done previously on standard tests - the format of the SAT, especially in math, requires some practice, its not like the achievement tests my DD took, so practice does help (remember she may ace the ACT)</p>

<p>DD was sick the day of her PSAt, did a little worse than what your daughter did, although she had a 77-78 in V, a 57!!??? in W, and a high 60ish in math. Thank heaven she didn't have to take the new SAT, the SATII Writing was nerve wracking enough. I was quite worried, upset because she missed the cut-off for NMF semis by only a couple of points, and concerned that her SATs would be way too low for the schools she was interested in. The months passed, no visible studying/prep, despite a small fortune on books (no prep courses here, we believe in the Xiggi system, too). I told her she needed to break 1500 to have a reasonably safe shot at the schools she was considering, she also was running a tight schedule on getting the tests done - only one shot at the SAT and SATIIs before ED apps were due, because of conflicts with the test dates. Finally, the week before each of the ACT and SAT she did some real visible practice - and miracle of miracles she did what she had to do. No 1600s, although she might could have if she had ever really prepped, and no way to talk her into taking them a second time, but still about a 100 point improvement over the PSAT.</p>

<p>PSATs are a point of pride, many schools make a big deal of how many NMF Semis they have, BUT, it probably won't make much difference in dollars or in admissions. In the end, we'd have gotten a couple of thousand at Carleton, and a few more thousand at the State Uni, but she was still a strong merit contender at her preferred safety, an extra 2K would have been nice, but not a dealmaker.
I know she's busy, but she needs to take a diagnostic test and review her misses with either you/CurgMom or a teacher/tutor. There's no reason to work on vocab if reading comprehension is the hang-up, or do algebra when basic geometry is the problem. For DD, it wasa matter of familiarity with the math format, the "this is how they are trying to trick you" explanations actually helped her a lot.</p>

<p>Good luck, she'll do great in the end, this is just a bump.</p>

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<p>Mr.B :</p>

<br>


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<p>You're kidding. How could you possibly propose to a woman, the future mother of your offspring, without <em>some</em> predictor of what your kids' future SAT scores would be? Didn't you have any consideration for all the future trauma they would go through when they didn't get into HPYC?</p>

<p>Oh, you people. You make me sick... :-)</p>

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<p>Don't go over the test with her, then: it's her thing, let her figure it out. But do get her the 10 Real SATs.</p>

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<p>Well, MomofWildChild (I wish I'd thought of that name for me!), I agree with you. I don't think the PSAT is really worth studying for most of the time, even unless your kid happens to have a chance at any of those NMF awards. But if he does, it can make a big difference in admissions and scholarships. One young man basically got a full ride at GW University, was accepted early, designated GW as his first choice and managed to work out a very sweet deal. The NMF was an important piece of his academic resume. I know two others at Grinnell and Carleton who went through the same process, and another kid at U of Richmond. Also even going to a nonsponsored school nets you $2500 for the first year which is nothing to sneeze at when you aren't getting another dime towards those costs. For my friend whose son went to Harvard that was his ONLY price break. And if you work for a company that sponsors some of the scholarships, making NMF can mean a substantial chunk of change and it is all grant money, doesn't have to be paid.</p>

<p>When I was a highschool senior and a NMF, the award was basically a 4 year tuition ride for me at a number of schools that no longer sponsor this, or perhaps it was NMF that paid for it. But tuition back then for a year at a private college was about what the one time award is, an amount that has not increased in line with tuition costs. A shame because back then the National Merit designation was ever so coveted as an ultimate academic award which is rapidly becoming a extinct creature. Yes, I know it is 99% based on test scores which we are trying to de emphasize, but it seems like the test scores are even more emphasized these days. It's sad when the top athlete in the country are better rewarded with scholarships than the top students.</p>

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<p>Remind me again, what it the Xiggi System?</p>

<p>And, have they revised the Real SATs to reflect the newer version?</p>

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<p>First and foremost, IT'S A GREAT SCORE -- CONGRATS TO HER! I know that's not what she wants to hear, but it's true. </p>

<p>I don't have much to add, except as mentioned already: the PSAT is primarily a practice SAT. The National Merit scholarship money is nice, and getting the recognition is great. But the core function of the test is to help the student prepare for the SAT, which is much more important in the grand scheme of things. </p>

<p>I have more in common with Thumper -- S is a good, solid student (Sophomore), taking tough courses, but he would consider a 210 a gift from God! As it is, he got a 177 (64, 52, 61). He was disappointed with math, but not devastated. He understands that he's actually one year behind where he should be in math because of a voluntary repeat in Middle School when he just didn't have a strong enough grasp of pre-algebra conceps to move on. He's done well since then, but I think he's always a half-step behind the things being tested on these national exams. He's taking Honors Algebra II next year, though, so hopefully he'll catch up before the SAT. </p>

<p>PSAT braggarts? Good grief. But I guess HS is a no-win proposition. Our S was actually very reluctant to discuss his PSAT because so many people at his school did worse -- he's desperate to avoid being labeled a "bookworm". Sigh. The joys of going to a school where less than 40% plan on attending a 4-year college and the average SAT is 960.</p>

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<p>Good question, Cheers, I'm pleaed to say I'm done with that phase and don't know if it's updated, but probably, it's a big seller. I don't really remember the Xiggi approach, but it was something like take a lot of practice tests, use logic, don't try to parse out the questions, they're simpler than you think.</p>

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<p>Cur, allow me to jump on the bandwagon and recommend to ... relax. Contrary to popular belief, the PSAT is not a great predictor of future success on the SAT. For starters, the PSAT is more difficult than the SAT because the questions are more ambiguous. I like to refer to the PSAT as Poor SAT since I believe that the test does not benefit from the same care by ETS as the SAT does. Then, since the test matters so little for most students, it is a given that the preparation varies tremendously. </p>

<p>All this to say that your daughter should not pay too much attention to her results. This said, I believe that it would be wise for you to spend some time reviewing the question and her answers with her. After finding out when she took the test, you could access this page at the TCB site:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/psat/psatextra/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/psat/psatextra/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you do not have access to your daughter's account, just create a new one and sign in. To get access to the specific PSAT test, you can enter any 3 digits (such as 124) followed by the W or S letter (for Wednesday or Saturday). From there, I would suggest to read the proposed answers. Heck, you could print out all the answers and show off your parental knowledge! Knowing where she missed the correct answer should be helpful. </p>

<p>As far as the future, increasing the score on the "real" thing should not be that hard, especially since she earned a very, very good score. A light program of dedicated practices should suffice. </p>

<p>I read that your daughter plans to take the Math-IIC test. As she probably knows, the results of that test are directly proportional to ones' knowledge and mastery of a graphing calculator like the TI-89. Since she has signed up, you should consider recommending her to also take the LAST Writing test. In my opinion, the old SAT-II Writing is a bit easier and will definitely benefit from a more standard grading policy. In fact, if she is ready, she won't have anything to lose but a few bucks and one hour of her time. A great score on the SAT-II test will go a long way to balance a potential lower score on the new SAT writing portion. A low score on the SAT-2 writing could be erased by a stronger performance on the post-March tests.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

20

<p>To illustrate the ambiguity of a number of PSAT questions, I provide this example from the Writing section of the wednesday test.</p>

<p>Sentence to check: Aerial photography is thought to be the most efficient technique to gather accurate information about the use of the land.</p>

<p>Possible errors:</p>

<p>A. to be
B. the most efficient
C. to gather
D. information about
E. No error</p>

<p>Before providing the proposed anwer of ETS, let me remind everyone that the error has to be conclusive and beyond doubt, and that the question is posed to a group of 10 or 11th graders. I think that ETS made quite a leap of faith in our K12 education system when proposing that a 10th grader could positively conclude that "for gathering" is conclusively better than "to gather", especially if one possible answer is "no error". </p>

<p>Proposed answer of ETS: </p>

<p>The error in this sentence occurs at (C), where the idiom is inappropriate. Modification of the noun "technique" by the infinitive "to gather" is unidiomatic. The noun is properly modified by the prepositional phrase "for gathering."</p>

<p>There is no error at (A). The infinitive "to be" correctly complements the verb "is thought," linking the subject of the sentence to the noun phrase "the most efficient technique."</p>

<p>There is no error at (B). The adjective "efficient" appropriately modifies the noun "technique," while the adverb "most" modifies the adjective "efficient," raising it to the superlative degree.</p>

<p>There is no error at (D). The noun "information" is an appropriate object of the infinitive "to gather" (and would be an appropriate object of the gerund "gathering"). The preposition "about" correctly begins a phrase that modifies the noun "information."</p>

<p>In the same vein, reviewing another example raises more eyebrows:</p>

<p>The Teutonic Knights took Gdansk in 1308 and renamed it Danzig: by 1466, however, Polish kings were sovereign there once again and had restored the city's original name.</p>

<p>The sentence contains no error.</p>

<p>There is no error at (A). The use of the simple past tense ("took") is consistent with the use of the simple past ("renamed" and "were") and past perfect ("had restored") tenses elsewhere in the sentence.</p>

<p>There is no error at (B). The verb "renamed," in the simple past tense, parallels the verb "took" that appears earlier in the sentence.</p>

<p>There is no error at (C). The adverb "there" appropriately modifies the preceding verb phrase, "were sovereign."</p>

<p>There is no error at (D). Together, the adverbs "once" and "again" properly modify the preceding verb phrase, "were sovereign there."</p>

<p>:)</p>