Generally, dropping out may be a better option than not having gone at all.
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This really brings home to me how misleading and shallow statistics can be when trying to judge the quality of a school.
Itâs already been mentioned that UAF is a unique school, in a unique state, with a unique mission. The stateâs economy is based on resource extraction, tourism and the military, so while thereâs a need for some college graduates, the economy isnât as dependent on them as it is in other states. Thus, thereâs less motivation for Alaskans to get a college degree in the first place. Generally, attending college isnât as important as it is elsewhere in the Lower 48, and Alaskans especially donât care about chasing prestige, which I always found refreshing.
Unlike more traditional schools that have a very high percentage of students who enrolled right after high school and whose main priority is getting their degree in four or five years, UAF has a huge number of non-traditional students who are older, have families and/or full-time jobs. They have higher priorities than school, and so theyâll attend part-time and will be quicker to drop out temporarily or permanently if job or family responsibilities demand it.
Many students enroll part-time from the nearby military bases, and after a year or two get transferred out of the state. Then you get the out-of-state students who leave after a semester because they canât handle the weather and isolation. There are also many students who have spent their whole lives in small, isolated villages of less than 1000 people, and who find even relatively small Fairbanks and UAF to be overwhelming, so they leave and go back to their villages.
When I was attending UAF, I had friends who only attended one semester out of every two or three, because the rest of the time they were working on fishing boats or at Prudhoe Bay. In my own case, I dropped out after my sophomore year, enlisted in the Air Force, and when I was done with that, I returned and got my degree. I didnât leave because the school was bad. I did it because I ran out of money.
Another issue is that Alaskan students are routinely told to leave the state for college in order to experience âthe real worldâ, which is something I agree with. So the University of Alaska system has a hard time attracting homegrown Alaska students.
All these are reflected in statistics that then get misinterpreted by people without contextual knowledge, and who incorrectly assume people leave school because theyâre unhappy with the education or thereâs something wrong with the school.
After all that, I will say the school is certainly not perfect. When I was attending, the state was in the midst of the Alaska oil boom, and the school had more money than it knew what to do with. Over the past 10 or so years, the state has since done a horrible job supporting its universities. The current governor massively chopped the budget of the university system when he first got into office, both because of the stateâs massive budget crunch from falling oil revenues, and heâs one of those who doesnât think a college education is all that important in the first place.
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Then that cheaper community college and smaller university will be subject to the same criticisms about low graduation rates and enrolling students who should not be going to college (in the view of the critics).
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Community colleges are expected to have lower grad rates and generally work with a far more challenging population than flagships.
I think we can resolve this by agreeing a school like Fairbanks might get an A for effort but a far different grade for actual academic outcome. Effort is important. As is social mobility, diversity, campus beauty, the sustainability of the campus, etc etc. Some schools really shine in those areas, and those are fair considerations, but as its primary mission is educational, I was focused on its academic level. YMMV
This isnât fair at all. The primary mission at these state schools is educational and academic, but the swath of those who are being educated is much wider at these schools, and the challenges and outcomes more varied.
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In a world of infinite resources (both time and money), we may be able to do all those things that yield some additional incremental benefits. But we donât live in such a world. We have to weigh benefits against costs. With their much higher cost, for both students and the state, 4-year colleges arenât the cost-effective options for a remedial education or for students who occasionally want to take a few classes. Even in places with sparse populations (like Alaska), itâd still be better and more cost-efficient to have dedicated schools for those purposes. One shoe doesnât fit all.
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We are lucky enough to have had a couple of posters who seem to know quite a lot about about higher education in Alaska. Can you tell us about your personal experience/expertise regarding the University system in Alaska, so we can better assess your opinion? Also . . .
- What is the basis for your claim that the University of Alaska is merely providing a âremedial education or for students who occasionally want to take a few classes?â
- What would be the âcostâ to Alaska of establishing a network additional schools a state 75 times the size of New Jersey, but with about 8% of its population?
- Juneau is about a 17 hour drive to Fairbanks if the roads are passable. How far would students have to travel to access their âlocalâ community college?
- Alaska is larger than the next three largest states (Texas, California, and Montana) combined; how many of these community colleges would there have to be for your proposal to work?
- What would the impact be on the already existing four year institutions? Would there even be enough students to maintain these universities?
- I do agree that one shoe doesnât fit all, but shouldnât that also apply to the way we evaluate these colleges?
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Most of your questions are not relevant. For a model of how a residential community college can serve a state flagship, see UVA-Wise campus. Wise not only provides access to the flagship, but also can now graduate students in their own right.
Very little added cost to repurpose some of the existing flagship facilities. For coexisting flagship/community college model, see Texas A&M and Blinn.
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How are the demographics of the state in question not relevant to its university system?
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My comment wasnât directed at UAF, but at public flagships more generally. I do recognize population sparsity in places like Alaska. But even those places, Iâd argue that itâs better and more cost effective to set up dedicated schools (residential or not) to serve students with different needs.
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You wrote . . .
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Donât just quote one sentence out of context. Hereâs what I wrote:
The first sentence is clearly directed at 4-year public colleges generally (not specific to UAF). In the second sentence, I tried to address the issue of population sparsity (and mentioned Alaska in doing so) and argued that, even in such areas, âitâd still be better and more cost effective to have dedicated schools for those purposesâ.
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The stateâs demographics do not change if the students are now enrolled in Fairbanks Community College rather than U of Alaska Fairbanks.
The interesting comments about the part-time, military, etc population are just that-interesting, but not very relevant. The IPEDS graduation rate is based upon full-time, first year enrollment students-in other words, degree seeking freshman-graduating within 6 years of first enrollment. The first-time, full-time frosh class at that school resembles that of many state flagships-88% in-state, 26% pell (low, actually), average age 19. Leaving aside the question of the diverse populations, that core full-time, first-time frosh group is neither graduating nor transfering at a decent rate,per IPEDS.
I agree completely that each school should be considered individually, but sometimes the excuses for a documented lack of performance donât really add up. One might characterize that as below average,or other terms.
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As a comment on geography, I believe a trip such as this would need to begin with a long ferry ride, as it is not possible to leave Juneau over land by car.
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