<p>I have a correction- D says about CCM for undergrad, "It's a great school, but noone ever gets in". She says, "If you want a conservatory and can get in, it's probably better than Cleveland or Eastman."
Jives with what lorelei said.</p>
<p>From looking at their website, I see that UCLA has a performance major in the College of Arts and Architecture; it is a B.A. program, requiring fulfillment of breadth requirements, in social science, humanities, etc. For Californians it has the advantage of low tuition. But if you apply to the program and don't get in, you can't get into UCLA in any other program (e.g., College of Letters and Sciences, where the musicology program is located). Does anyone know if it is a good program for piano or violin?</p>
<p>The department of music is trying to become its own school but is currently part of Arts & Architecture. Like a conservatory, the audition is by far the most important criteria for admissions. The faculty is outstanding because of being in Los Angeles. I have heard outstanding graduate students in both piano and violin, but have not heard any undergrads. But I assume most are quite talented. If you are talented all you really need is a 3.0 gpa. In general, you would need a 4.2+ to get in to the other schools at UCLA. Music is definitely an easier way to get in (assuming you have the talent). Ethnomusicology is even easier to get into because it is a very small program looking to expand. Surprisingly, jazz majors at UCLA fall under the ethnomusicology dept. and not the music dept.</p>
<p>Many (if not most) colleges/universities have a BA program with a major in music. It usually requires 4+ semesters each in music theory, music history, an applied area (piano, voice, tuba, etc.), ensemble, plus another couple of junior level courses. What it does not require is the full 4 years of lessons and ensembles, a recital, instrument specific pedagogy and/or literature, conducting. If there is any chance that the student will want to change to a BM or BME, it is imperative that music theory and lessons start the freshman year, otherwise, it is not possible to graduate in four years. A BA curriculum allows for that while the student explores other subjects, which can serve as general education or core requirements if the student moves into the School or COllege of Music. The BA is usually granted by the College of Arts and Sciences (or some such faculty grouping), while the BM is given by the College/School of Music (Fine and Applied Arts, Arts, etc.). The performance audition is not so strenuous for the BA, and frequently the BA student does not have high priority with major teachers, studio spots going first to performance and music education students. Of course, if a BA student is very gifted, the teacher may chose to teach him/her anyway. At some schools there is a pecking order of "dibbies" for teacher time, and a junior music ed major can be bumped from a studio by a freshman performance major, for instance. In that situation, the BA student would be far down the list. It raises a question which should be asked by incoming students. The BA student may wind up studying with graduate students or several different major faculty members. This is more likely to happen in a discipline where there are several teachers (voice, piano, violin, etc.) For instance, a BA oboe student might get lessons from a doctoral student, with some access to the major professor. This can work very well and much to the student's advantage.</p>
<p>At UCLA, there are multiple BA tracks in music, however, which makes it different from, let's say UC Berkeley, which has a BA in Music, that requires study of history, musicianship, ethnomusicology, and performance, and is in the College of Letters and Sciences. At UC Berkeley, it is true, the department is principally academic: there is less emphasis on performance, though there are many opportunities to perform (an excellent orchestra and chorus, chamber groups, a Noon Concert series with a loyal and large local following, ad hoc groups that accompany dance and other performances, etc.) and some students go on to conservatories and become professional musicians; others go to graduate school in music history or on to other careers. At UCLA, however, there is a separate performance major (in a separate School -- Arts and Architecture) in an instrument that requires participation in ensembles, junior and senior recitals, etc., which makes it seem more like a conservatory, and there are also academic requirements far beyond those at most straight conservatories -- it seems to be kind of a middle-ground between a BA and typical BM in that respect. (By contrast, to major in musicology at UCLA, one must be admitted into the College of Letters and Sciences -- it is an academic degree.) I just wonder how it compares to a five-year double degree program, e.g., at Oberlin or Bard -- but this thread is about public university programs...</p>
<p>Yale Music School is now free tuition. If you don't believe me go to their site. They are going to be stealing kids now from Curtis, Julliard, IU, Eastman, Michigan, Oberlin, Harvard...</p>
<p>Yale is only a graduate music school.</p>
<p>As I understand it and Yale just sent us information last week so it should be correct, Yale undergrad music still has tuition, but the grad school is free.</p>
<p>And to boot, probably half of the opera students in the graduate school were courted and invited on full scholarship to begin with! Not much of a change for the voice program. Instrumentally, it may be a totally different story. I'm anxious to read the large article in the New York Times this past Sunday on it.</p>
<p>Your D should meet some great teachers and other students at Interlochen, so that is a place to start and get a feel of teaching styles and what the competition is. Summer programs are great for connecting with teachers and other students, too. I noted after looking around the internet about the MetOpera finals that some of the finalists had attended McGill, so they must be doing something right! As far as public schools, there are probably hundreds of solid programs and voice is a unique musical discipline because it is true that maturity happens much later. That's not to say that a very strong undergrad program isn't something to strive for, but the human voice and its development is far different than a violinist or pianist who started lessons when they were 4 years old. I have read about some singers who started out as instrumentalists who switched to voice in their late teens. Unless you are totally committed to stay on the East coast for college, you might research Univ. of North Texas. My son is starting there in the fall and he is getting in-state tuition, because he got a scholarship. They have a huge music school and pretty solid vocal faculty. It might be especially great for undergrad studies. So something to think about. You don't have to have super strong academics to get admitted, either. Denton, TX is only 35 minutes from Dallas, so there's plenty of opera and vocal opportunities, too.</p>
<p>I'm looking forward to her summer experience and to hear what she thinks of the different schools represented.
We live in Texas. UNT is an option, but she would rather go out of state if she can. She is interested in Lawrence, Oberlin Conservatory, and McGill. I'm wanting her to pick several more schools. UNT may be in that list.
Thanks for all the input and the conversations.</p>
<p>Does anyone know about the performance program at McGill -- a public school, though Canadian? Auditions? What it's like for American applicants?</p>
<p>hey- I'm a McGill music student. I'm also American.</p>
<p>The Schulich School of Music is by far the best music school in Canada, and one of the best in North America and the world. It's reputation in the states is quite high, and as students learn more about the cheaper price tag and program quality, more Americans are choosing a Canadian education over a US based one. </p>
<p>McGill is one of the top universities in the world, and as a music student you're completely immersed in the university. The city of Montreal is amazing, and has one of the most vibrant music scenes in North America (not to mention culture in general)... </p>
<p>It's considered a "public" college in that in Canada all schools are subsidized by the government, but out of any of the Canadian universities, McGill is by far the most "private" in the sense that it relies heavily on private giving and research, etc.</p>
<p>You can learn more about the audition repertoire and reqs on the website <a href="http://www.mcgill.ca/music/%5B/url%5D">www.mcgill.ca/music/</a></p>
<p>As an American applicant they will look mostly at your audition, but also SAT/ACT scores and GPA.</p>
<p>Thanks! Is it possible to take courses outside music or complete a second degree at the same time?</p>
<p>I hear McGill is less expensive, but when adding up everything, it seems to be the same most private schools. And being in Canada, wouldn't the financial aid (grants and such) be lacking?</p>
<p>McGill must be doing something right... I noticed that more than a few finalists and semi-finalists in the Met Opera Regionals were from McGill. Their voice department must be very strong.</p>
<p>i'm a voice student there- indeed the voice program is very strong. we have an excellent faculty, and some outstanding singers! i certainly chose this school over a number of renowned voice programs in the states.</p>
<p>it is possible to doube major, and take a double degree- in fact i am doing that in linguistics and philosophy...</p>
<p>mcgill is certainly not as expensive as a private college. the tuition is about 12,000$ for an american music student, and the extra costs are all opt-outable (health insurance, student fees, etc) so it is possible to live on that... and the cost of living in montreal is extremely cheap... and though the american dollar isn't as high as it was when i started here, it still holds a bigger value then the canadian dollar. the financial aid just increased three-folds here with the recent 20$ million given to the school by benafactor Seymour Schulich, so scholarships are increasing. I received a scholarship from McGill for admission, plus bursaries that you can apply for. It's by far much cheaper than any of my other options that I had when accepted to schools.</p>
<p>rideltrain, I'm so glad you have passed on the information. I thought the $12k-15k was for tuition and then that amount again for housing. If that includes both, you are quite right about it being less expensive.
Linguistics and philosophy? Interesting!</p>
<p>sorry about that- it doesn't include living too... but i can say that i have an apartment here in montreal that i pay 400$ a month for, and its a pretty sweet deal! </p>
<p>when i decided on mcgill it was between mcgill, northwestern, msmnyc, and bu... by far mcgill even without the scholarships would have been cheaper than all three!</p>
<p>Even at $12 + $15 it is much cheaper than private tuition + housing in the US, which is in the $40,000 range.<br>
How is living in a bilingual city? Do you get much exposure to the French parts of Montreal? Is there any tension between US and Canadian students? Francophone and English speaking students?</p>