My apologies, @DeepBlue86, for not immediately recognizing that you were using the latest NMSF data (Class of 2018). My bad!
The moderator has threatened to shut down this side discussion, but if he or she allows your comment to stand, perhaps he or she will allow an acknowledgment and rebuttal, and my attempt to relate this back to the thread topic.
First, I’m glad to see that you are using NMSF data to try to validate impressions. I am usually the “testing” person on this forum – and I invariably get called out on it – so when another poster brings it up I am always happy. I have often made the same argument on this forum that you implicitly make: namely, that objective data like SAT, PSAT, NMSF, SAT II scores, etc. do have a valuable role in evaluating schools and student bodies. Matriculation at “elite” schools doesn’t tell us too much, of course, as so many are “born on third base” with respect to college admissions.
Second, you are basing your whole criticism of my characterization of Manhattan private schools on one year of data, but I think they are roughly representative, so let’s go with them. (As an aside, numbers of NMSF are down significantly for Class of 2018 at many top high schools – I have noted this on another thread with respect to PEA, and now we see that is true with respect to Trinity and Regis as well).
Third, my original comment that seemed to set you off (post #10) was that Trinity represents one of the very few private schools in Manhattan with a “good number” of “very smart” kids, and I acknowledged that the characterization depended upon one’s definitions. I am happy to add Collegiate and Brearley to that list, although I note that each is very small, comparatively. I know Collegiate reasonably well, and I never pretended to know much about girls’ schools in Manhattan.
Fourth, with regard to Regis, my only comment was that it “walks the walk” with regard to service and giving back, starting with its being tuition free, of course, despite its not having the funds to spend $45MM on a renovation or pay its headmaster more than $1MM per year. I said that “on average” Regis kids are “a bit smarter” than at Trinity (post #15), and made no comparisons with the elite public schools. Once you understand the selection process (Trinity doubles the size of its class in 9th grade, taking already “proven” kids in relation to its elementary school cohort who were evaluated back when they were 4 years old), which primarily involves testing at Regis and a smattering of other factors at Trinity, it’s not a large jump in logic to get to my “a bit smarter” conclusion. I stand by it.
Fifth, I didn’t mean to exclude Hunter College High School. I’ve known many, many kids at Hunter over the years. They are smarter, on average, than kids at Trinity or Regis or any other private or parochial. I never claimed differently. I also think Stuyvesant kids are a lot smarter than at any of the non-publics. Really, how could it be otherwise? The NMSF results that you brought up (and other things like math competition results) confirm this. You didn’t address the outliers issue at the top end of the scale, but again given the admissions processes at Hunter and Stuyvesant, can there really be any doubt?
Last, many people on this forum wonder why I go on so much about testing. Many people simply try to equate scores with preparation and socioeconomic class, which of course is largely nonsense, as demonstrated by the fact that free schools like Hunter and Stuyvesant outclass even the toniest and wealthiest of schools, in which students presumably have every environmental advantage possible. (As if this needs to be validated – there have been reams of studies confirming that SES is not very important after controlling for intelligence.) Even Regis punches well above its weight here – ok, I’ll give you Collegiate (another $50K+ school with very limited financial aid), and of course well mannered boys would never fight with girls, Brearley included! BTW, I disagree with your characterization of HM as “somewhat” larger – it’s 40% larger than Regis, has fewer NMSF, and of course also costs $50K+.
Testing represents the only plausible avenue for relatively disadvantaged kids to distinguish themselves – the same kids that the Trinity Head of School purports to care about in his missive to the elites on “noblesse oblige.” Every single time tests are dumbed down, grades are inflated, and character and extracurricular activity screens are instituted, relatively disadvantaged but smart kids lose another chance to distinguish themselves - and collectively academic measures are really the only way reliably to distinguish themselves in what is becoming a rat race. No one is calling the admissions offices on their behalf, their parents can’t afford to pay $7,500 so that they can pretend to build a house in Nicaragua over the summer, and the wealthy parents don’t want the competition anyway. The Trinity Head of School does nothing – and will do nothing – to upset this dynamic, which has been evolving for about a hundred years now. But as I said in my first comment on this thread (post #3), purchasing indulgences is easy when you are not the one paying.