Q. for Parents re: confusion about ED / EA

<p>I am confused about ED application. On these boards I have read how:
** it is important to let your school of choice know of your passion for them by applying ED or EA and that in most cases this may enhance your chance of acceptance.
** if you are a recruited athlete at a DIII, NAIA or DII school, there will be pressure to apply ED / EA and it will help you
AND
** NO ONE should EVER consider applying anywhere ED if they need financial aid.</p>

<p>Are all of these true? Or have I misunderstood?</p>

<p>DS will be applying for Fall '07 and will be qualifying for need-based aid as well as looking for merit aid. He is also likely to be a DIII recruit in soccer and / or tennis.
Should we eliminate ED from thought??
Thanks for thoughts and clarification.</p>

<p>I agree with the first two statements. If you want to be able to COMPARE financial packages, you can not apply ED. If you can get a good indication in advance of your ED application what the financial package is likely to be, and if it is acceptable, then you can go ahead.</p>

<p>Some schools are very generous with their financial aid for ED students. If they want you to come, they will try to make it possible.
You should talk to the admissions offices at the schools where your son is interested and see what they say.</p>

<p>If I was a school with a not large endowment (everybody but HYP and Rice??) I might be tempted to use the following strategy. Give crummy financial aid but match offers from peer institutions. </p>

<p>I don't have to match ED applicants. Weeeeeeeeeeee!</p>

<p>Consequently, I will give them a little boost in acceptances.</p>

<p>ORJr
S faced this same dilemma this past year. We foiund that many of the competitive DIII lacs provided information about grant to loan ratios and examples of typical awards. A school that meets 100% of demonstrated need with 85% in grants is certainly a safer bet for ED than a school with a poorer grant to loan ratio. The DIII financial aid offices provided helpful vignettes depicting a range of financial situations and typical awards allowing us to estimate a likely packages. </p>

<pre><code> S. was accepted ED, with the help of an athletic tip, to a top LAC. We had been assured by this financial aid office that ED and RD applicants receive similar aid awards. S received a fair financial AID package that was 85% grant.

As you know, RD you can compare financial aid packages, but lose the advantage of the athletic tip, a potential ticket into a school that might not otherwise be an option. Best of luck to you and DS!
</code></pre>

<p>Thanks for that last posting - I was afraid the thread was dead - we are just beginning (perhaps a bit later than most here) to winnow down a list of 20 - 30 schools to ones that merit visiting and asking these important questions.
Then the whole athletic piece came up and I feel like back to square one.</p>

<p>If a college says they meet 100% of need (per CSS or FAFSA) that could still be met by all loan + work study, right? That's the place we don't want to get caught. Reasonable loan and work study + need aid + merit aid = a college we can afford. Finding this out seems to be a HUGE "reach" all by itself, though!</p>

<p>So when you say talk to the fin. aid dept. do you go in and meet 1:1 before you've even applied?
I hate to sound ignorant - but hey - that's why I'm here - to mine ya'lls expertise!!</p>

<p>I think that it is important to understand that :</p>

<ol>
<li><p>there are different methodologies for calculating FA- federal (usually reqest the FAFSA only), institutional , concensus (usually requests the FAFSA & the CSS profile/ school's own FA form)</p></li>
<li><p>A school can theoretically offer you loans and still meet your demonstrated need. The majority of colleges do not meet 100% of your demonstrated need. Just because a school meets 100% of demonstrated need, that need can be calculated different ways at different schools and it is very unlikely that you will get 2 packages that are exactly the same. Some schools that meet 100% demonstrated need do not give merit aid. However some schools do consider need when giving out merit and while others count merit in their need.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>If you type a college in the college board's quick college finder:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/splash%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/splash&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>if you click the school's cost and financial aid tab, you can find the following information:</p>

<p>Financial Aid Statistics
Full-time freshman enrollment:
Number who applied for need-based aid:
Number who were judged to have need:
Number who were offered aid:
Number who had full need met:
Average percent of need met:<br>
Average financial aid package:
Average need-based loan:
Average need-based scholarship or grant award:
Average non-need based aid:
Average indebtedness at graduation:</p>

<p>Financial Aid Distribution
Percent of total undergraduate aid awarded as:
Scholarships / grants:<br>
Loans / jobs:</p>

<p>A school that use the FAFSA long with the CSS profile / their own institutional forms does look at the income assets of both parents: custodial/non-custodial and even step parents. </p>

<p>Your EFC from a school that only uses the FAFSA will look very different from a school that uses the FAFSA and the CSS profile or their own instiutional aid form.</p>

<p>The information from the profile will account for your increase in EFC because your EFC may show that you have considerable income/assets/equity which shows up on the profile that you don't have to indicate on the FAFSA.</p>

<p>The FAFSA is requested by all schools and is mainly used by schools that calculate FA using the federal methodology. </p>

<p>The schools that require the CSS profile often distribute their own institutional funds and use an institutional/ concensus methodolody. The Profile is used to get a more complete picture of your financial situation.</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models include:</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

<p>No matter how you slice it, $180,000 is a lot of money. Your parents have already stated that they can't/won't pay/borrow this amount because they feel that you have more viable options (a good in-state school, and a school where you are getting a considerable FA package that most likely has merit money within it). </p>

<p>As a student, there are cumulative limit of $23,000 which you can borrow for an undergraduate education using stafford or perkins loans.</p>

<p>I think we must have a very UNcomplicated financial picture, as the Dartmouth calculator and the FAFSA calculator gave us very similar amounts. So I will be THRILLED to look up individual schools for the info. described by Sybbie in the post before last.
We want to support our S, but stay away from a situation where he is IN but can't afford to go - heartbreak city - and totally avoidable if I be a nice mama and do my homework!</p>

<p>Sybbie - you are awesome! I just went through a full list of 27 schools on the website you mentioned re: aid and got great info!
Now to cross - reference this need-based info. with the merit info....
getting there</p>

<p>Great!!</p>

<p>the college board also has a FA calculator that you can also run your numbers through using both the FM and IM to see where you stand.</p>

<p>Keep in mind</p>

<p>Cost of attendance - EFC = demonstrated need.</p>

<p>If you had a "10000" efc and was looking at a $40000 (COA)</p>

<p>40000-10000 = 30,000 demonstrated need </p>

<p>If a school only meets 80% of your demonstrated need :</p>

<p>30000*.2= 6000 (the amount that will be unmet or Gapped. You will have to fill the gap on your own) Add this amount to your EFC you will get a good idea of your out of pocket costs.</p>

<p>Now..</p>

<p>at the school that packages 75% grants/ 25% loans work study</p>

<p>grant aid 22,500</p>

<p>loan /work study 7,500</p>

<p>Student loan 3,500</p>

<p>perkins loan (depending on the school) 2000</p>

<p>work study 2000</p>

<p>There are also other variables to take into consideration:<br>
whether your son is at the top of the admitted pool, recruited for anything, NMS, attends a school that tells you that they do preferential packaging, schools that have new provisions in place for families in certain income brackets.</p>

<p>Keep in mind the changes in student loans effective July 1, 2007 Stafford Loans allow dependent undergraduates to borrow up to $3,500 their freshman year (up from $2,625), $4,500 their sophomore year (up from $3,500) and $5,500 for each remaining year (independent students and students whose parents have been turned down for a PLUS loan can borrow an additional unsubsidized $4,000 the first two years and $5,000 the remaining years). </p>

<p>have fun :)</p>