<p>Wait lecturer's aren't PhDs? Why do I feel like this is not true?</p>
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i've even seen that at very top unis, PhDs sometimes are given LECTURER positions....
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<p>Oh definitely. In fact, this happens commonly. Plenty of PhD's aren't good enough to become an assistant prof immediately upon graduation. So they take a lecturer position instead. In fact, this is extremely common for post-docs, meaning guys who have their PhD but who sign on to a university lab to mostly do research, but also to do some teaching, all in an effort of boosting their chances of getting a prof position. In certain fields, it is rare for somebody NOT to do a postdoc. </p>
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Wait lecturer's aren't PhDs? Why do I feel like this is not true?
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<p>That's not what I meant. What I meant is that IDEALLY once you get a Phd, you will get an assistant prof position. Of course, things don't always work out ideally, and so you may get a PhD position and not get a prof offer, and so end up taking a lecturer position in the hopes of developing enough of a CV such that you can turn it into a prof position. Or, many people who fail in the tenure review may still get offered lecturer positions because the school still values them as teachers (but not as researchers).</p>
<p>here's a link that pretty much corroborates everything Sakky has said:</p>
<p>according to the site, an AssistProf who gets tenure is given AssocProf ranking. an AssocProf can they be given a full Professorship ranking (but they don't say how). </p>
<p>and they say the extra year of work given to a failed tenure candidate, is to give them a year to find another job. ouch...</p>
<p>and UCLA's academic human resources link explaining more stuff:</p>
<p>next question (and i know it must be very very hard to answer):</p>
<p>what is the success rate of Assistant Profs in obtaining tenure?</p>
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And then of course there are the cases of advisors and students with such poor relations that things end tragically
<a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...h&pagewanted=1%5B/url%5D">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...h&pagewanted=1</a>
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<p>wow that was the most disturbing picture of graduate school life i have encountered, esp. on the events that led up to the suicide. a very good read nonetheless that vividly details the dark side of top graduate schools.</p>
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according to the site, an AssistProf who gets tenure is given AssocProf ranking.
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<p>I would point out that there are some departments at some schools that will promote you to associate prof, and THEN, after a few years, will run the tenure review. So you effectively have 2 kinds of associate profs - those without tenure, and those with. There are a variety of different ways that schools can run their promotion systems. </p>
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an AssocProf can they be given a full Professorship ranking (but they don't say how).
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<p>Generally, after having established a long record of publication and successfully performing a bunch of administrative tasks for the department, the department will promote you. Partly out of respect for your work, partly out of fear that if they don't, some other school will try to hire you away. </p>
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and they say the extra year of work given to a failed tenure candidate, is to give them a year to find another job. ouch...
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<p>Yeah, it's rough. But I still think that, in many ways, it's better than the private sector. Think about it - how many private sector employers are going to give people a year's warning before finally officially terminating their employment? Pretty much none of them. When you get fired/laid-off in the working world, it's immediate. Many companies will have security guards frogmarch you out of the building that very day, probably out of fear that you will steal something or cause a scene. I remember a friend of mine who got laid off who told me that before he had even arrived to the office (to find out that he was terminated), they had already deleted his email and voicemail account. When companies want to get rid of you, they just get rid of you immediately, and they give you no time to find another job. </p>
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next question (and i know it must be very very hard to answer):</p>
<p>what is the success rate of Assistant Profs in obtaining tenure?
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<p>Very hard to answer, because it varies widely from school to school and department to department. For example, I know at MIT, there are certain departments that haven't granted tenure to anybody in many years, such that it is hardly an insult if you don't get it, because it is widely understood that almost nobody gets it. People take assistant prof jobs at such a department not because they actually think they will get tenure, but just to burnish their resume and network with profs at MIT - as it does look good on your resume to say that you were a prof at MIT, even if it was just as an untenured assistant prof. You will also probably be able to publish better papers by collaborating with people at MIT. All of this would be done in order to enhance your chances at getting tenure at some other school that you will jump to. </p>
<p>But frankly, even the life of an assistant prof, even if you never get tenure, isn't all that bad, if it is certain lucrative disciplines like the natural sciences, engineering, business, economics, and a few others, and especially if it is at a top-ranked school. I think this is especially true in business, economics, engineering, and certain natural sciences like biochemistry/genetics/molecular biology. Being able to say that you were an assistant prof at a big-name school in one othese disciplines is a great boon to your resume, and should allow you to get a very nice industry job or consulting job.</p>
<p>how come i get "Page Not Found" with that link?</p>