Quality of undergraduate education at Yale

<p>Hi Everyone,</p>

<p>My child got accepted into Yale via SCEA. We were all excited about this. However, after hearing so many negative things about undergraduate education at Yale, we are having a second thought.</p>

<p>Most significantly, a professor at our local college told me that many of the undergraduate courses are taught by TAs. He was a TA himself when he was a doctoral student at Yale. He basically trashed the whole undergraduate education at Yale, saying that neither the TAs nor the professors care much about teaching undergraduates. They are all focusing on their own research, and care most about their own publications. In addition, he told me that Yale is really bad at STEM, lagging behind University of Chicago,Duke and even some of the state colleges. My child is interested in chemistry.</p>

<p>Can someone else give me a real picture of undergraduate education at Yale?</p>

<p>Seriously response only</p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p>I had 4classes not taught by professors. One was an intro level Econ class (and it was terriffic), the other was a high level seminar in Econ (by a Doctoral candidate and it inspired my eventual Senior Project). The others were a 1st year English class and my intermediate French class. Both were fine. </p>

<p>I dunno where your person’s info comes from. I found the instruction to be excellent. Talk to students. Talk to students when they travel home on break. They’ll literally be bouncing off the wall in enthusiasm. It’s what got me to apply in the first place.</p>

<p>Obviously I only attended one college but cannot think another college could do it better. Was it perfect? No. But Yale honestly and deeply strives to make the undergraduate experience fantastic. I never envied another person at any college (well, I did envy my Stanford GF’s weather in Palo Alto … but that’s it)</p>

<p>So your kid applied & was accepted to Yale, and now you want to know if Yale is any good. That’s your question?? I’ll get back to you.</p>

<p>My dad taught undergrad classes when he was a grad student at Yale. He remains the best math teacher I’ve ever had. I don’t think TAs are an inherently bad thing - they might even be more excited about the material than a professor. </p>

<p>Anyway, if possible, I urge you to visit and have your son sit in on classes so he can see for himself. And do know that the overwhelming majority of Yalies absolutely adore the school, as T26 said.</p>

<p>TAs aren’t bad thing…</p>

<p>but it becomes bad after Yale promises its prospective undergraduates that leading scholars/writers/scientists teach undergraduates with complete dedication; however, they send TAs to take classes and professors work on their own stuffs…</p>

<p>I think your information is false. My sophomore STEM major has yet to have anything other than a professor teach any of his classes. The TA’s do grade lab reports though.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Ditto for my son; also, his advisor is his department’s chair. Don’t know the sources of your information, but in choosing between Y and P, my son chose Yale because of its strong reputation for being invested in its undergraduates’ education.</p>

<p>TAs lead discussion sections in lecture classes, and they teach some limited classes like intro math and foreign language, perhaps a few more. I had two when I was there 30 years ago, and I don’t think my kids–there now–have had any, except in foreign language.</p>

<p>There may be better places to go for chemistry (for all I know) but overall the undergraduate education at Yale is excellent.</p>

<p>We were given a list of theater BA programs for my daughter to research from a theater professor who was a Yale undergrad, and and I was a bit surprised that Yale was not on his list. He told us he had concerns about the turnover and inconsistencies in Yale’s undergrad program, but he did say Yale’s theater MFA program is one of the best in the world.</p>

<p>I was a student at Yale, mainly in the humanities, many decades ago, but I don’t think the system has changed much since. In four years, I had exactly one class taught by a graduate student – and it was a seminar I signed up for specifically because he had been my TA in another course, and he was one of the best teachers I had in my life. I would have taken a course in alphabetization or gardening if that’s what he had wanted to teach. I had a number of lecture courses where there was a once-a-week discussion section (and in some cases a lab) taught be graduate student TAs, but there was no question that the professor giving the lectures was teaching the course, and he (I’d love to say “he or she”, but I didn’t have any lecture courses with women professors then) was accessible to undergraduate students. I thought the TAs were extremely valuable as a bridge between undergraduates and top-rank professors. Among the TAs I had were future English Department chairs at Harvard and Yale, and a German Department chair at Michigan – they were pretty high quality. My wife was also a Yale undergraduate, and the graduate student who taught the one seminar SHE took with a grad student teacher became, within five years after we graduated, the author of a widely read book in her field and a well-known, controversial public intellectual.</p>

<p>And to put all that in context, I had two courses where the weekly discussion sections were lead by full faculty, in one case a world-famous full professor. I had six seminars with fewer than 20 students taught by tenured faculty, plus an independent reading course supervised by a famous visiting faculty member, and another taught by a leading non-academic critic in the field. I had a household-name full professor as my academic advisor for two years, and I wasn’t even majoring in his department.</p>

<p>If you go to college at a research university, you are going to have contact with graduate students – that’s a given. Personally, I think it’s a good thing, because they have all recently gone through the process of becoming sophisticated in their field, and they understand more viscerally than older faculty what it takes to get from a high-school level of understanding to a graduate-school level of understanding. Plus, as I indicated, if the university is a strong one, the graduate students are not intellectually inferior to the faculty, just younger and less experienced (and often more energetic and passionate). Graduate student TAs are a strength of Yale’s, but they don’t even begin to eclipse the role of ladder faculty in teaching undergraduates, and they don’t perform any kind of gatekeeper role at all.</p>

<p>(As a qualification to all of this, let me say that I never took an introductory math class. I believe that at Yale, as at every comparable institution, introductory math classes are mainly taught by graduate students, and while the curriculum may have been developed by full faculty, it would be misleading to suggest that anyone but the grad student was teaching a particular section. But that’s the exception, not the rule.)</p>

<p>Anyone who tells you that the quality of undergraduate education at Yale is anything other than first-rate is speaking total bull. I’ve gone here for four years, and I have friends at peer institutions. I can say without qualification that the Yale undergrad experience is as good as any of them, and better in some important ways.</p>

<p>When it comes to graduate work, “quality” is much more subjective, and thus it really depends on the department. I don’t know anything about the quality of the graduate program in chemistry. But all of the undergrad chem majors I have known love it here.</p>

<p>My freshman has had only professors, not TAs, as teachers in all of his classes this year. One of his current professors is a real hot shot researcher in his field, but also a fabulous teacher. My kid is absolutely loving his course. He also loved the freshman seminar he took, and told us that the professor who taught it “had the most impressive mind of anyone * have met at Yale so far.” There may be some profs at Yale who aren’t interested in teaching undergrads, but this seems a ridiculous generalization based on our experience thus far.</p>

<p>Your student will probably initially have some large introductory science lectures as my son did, but taught by professors. TAs run small “section” discussion groups that meet once a week, and a TA also led my son’s chem lab.</p>

<p>I wonder how long ago your professor acquaintance was at Yale? Yale has poured a lot of money into its science programs and facilities in recent years and an increasing number of STEM applicants are enrolling there, as described in this recent YDN article:</p>

<p>[Science</a> recruitment goal attained | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2013/01/18/science-recruitment-goal-attained/]Science”>Science recruitment goal attained - Yale Daily News)</p>

<p>I hope your child can go to Bulldog Days and talk to some current chem majors. I suspect he or she (and you) will have your fears put to rest.</p>

<p>Dear David,</p>

<p>I think if you ask around about the Ivies or the most selective colleges, you will see that Yale is regarded as having the MOST undergrad-focused program of the great research universities. I do think that there are some trade-offs – my Middlebury friends have a set-up that is almost like a small prep school in terms of small class sizes and contacts with full professors – but the resources, world class reputation, amazing student body, and faculty scholarship at Yale is hard to beat.</p>

<p>There is no doubt that Yale is known more for the humanities than the sciences, but to say “Yale is really bad at STEM” is, well, a bit silly. They are putting a lot of resources into STEM and the feedback is very, very good.</p>

<p>It doesn’t mean your daughter shouldn’t keep her applications open elsewhere, and maybe think of an engineering school or somewhere more quantitatively focused, but don’t let one viewpoint carry the day on this one, as your professor friend’s viewpoint is decidedly in a minority.</p>

<p>Just as a slightly tangential comment, some 30 years ago when I was a HS Senior, I applied ED to Swarthmore and was accepted. Our neighbor, who went to Villanova (just down the street from Swat, sort of) started telling us how Swat was full of eggheads who were incredibly boring and no fun at all and he couldn’t imagine going there (nice guy huh?) I had a few weeks of panic and terror, even making a separate trip there to reassure myself. Let’s just say, he had his own axe to grind and meant nothing in the end. He was wrong. Your kid will likely have other options, keep them open, visit on “admitted student” days, and get the real story. Best wishes.</p>

<p>Could it be that this professor friend is talking down Yale so that your obviously talented daughter will go to your local collage? Just a thought.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, our son has taken a total of 19 courses so far; to my knowledge, none of them were taught by a TA. It’s possible he took a lab taught by a TA. Except for one, he has enjoyed every single teacher. I am sure some courses are taught by TAs, but maybe only a few and only certain courses?</p>