QuestBridge Sucks

Paying for College Access Programs (Questbridge, Posse)
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<p>Beahonest, you may want to compare the conditional proportions among applicants and finalists. If you got your hands on the complete set of applicant data, you might see that p(finalist|white)~=p(finalist|black). You might also want to compare the inequalities between the proportion of blacks in poverty to the proportion of whites in poverty. Could it be that, since the proportion of non-whites coming from families in poverty is greater than that of whites, a larger proportion of the total applicants (and therefore finalists) are non-white? Just my two cents.</p>

<p>Then again, I’m just a “minority who definitely, ‘if not, probably’ has lower scores than you” who was selected as a finalist.</p>

<p>I</p>

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<p>I am a finalist this year of questbridge. I look white, but I’m really native american. I am not the first person in my family to attend college and I don’t have perfect grades. I’m a lesbian. Writing essays is definitely my forte, though, and I have a life story full of problems. I’ve been through two custody battles and numerous abusive adults. I suffered through an intense depression which nearly resulted in me taking my own life my freshman year. My grades were straight C’s. Now I’m a senior and a finalist, straight A’s, and my weighted gpa is a 3.9 on the 4 pt. I live with my mother and we survive off of her income of 8.5k and my income from working 40 hours a week at Arbys. She is extremely ill and without her extremely expensive medicine, she would be in a wheelchair within a year and dead within 2. I am in 5 VERY difficult AP classes and one honors class. Your post offends me, because I worked very hard to get where I’m at and to become a finalist. However, you are suggesting that I was just handed my status as a finalist because I’m a minority. You are belittling my achievements and my struggles and it deeply offends me. Someone posted earlier the site where it showed the race diversity in the match program and the second largest group (only second by 1%) were white people.</p>

<p>Please think before you speak again, because you come off as elitist. I don’t appreciate your tone or the way you have belittled the achievements of the minorities involved in the program.</p>

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<p>Oh, and I would kill to have $40k a year income, let alone $60k. The fact that you don’t recognize that as poor shows that you are not and never will be a QuestBridge kid.</p>

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<p>This has been quite a discussion. I’ll recommend that more civility is needed. Yes, beahonest came out with some strong statements and stands, and hasn’t really backed off - and others have offered responses that range from being defensive to being affronted. Let’s begin with the selection process.
A selections process based on the human condition is going to be far from perfect. There are a few things that QuestBridge does advise all applicants. They advise you to take a look at the demographics, who should apply. This would include all of the statistics available on the QB site. And they ask for a “flawless” application. I have a D who is a QB finalist. She did not match, largely because of her review of the statistics of the program, those showed very few caucasian candidates being matched - very few.
Her thought was that it would be better to go RD. And just before she submitted her application, a few days ahead of the deadline, she did a rigorous review of it, for small errors. That was a good thing because she found nearly a couple dozen small ones. An extra, “and” here, a missing hyphen there, a missing capitalization etc. They added up. She was so glad to have done that last review and edit before the final submission. Frankly, from what I saw, and the requirement for a “flawless app.” I believe that it had something to do with her being selected a finalist. Selection and admissions processes are never perfect. A former colleague of mine, with an Ivy League education, who headed up an advancement campaign for a prestigious New England prep school – 20 years ago used to work admissions for a very prestigious school (a current QB school). He would be given a stack of 100 applications and told to review these and select the best 10. And that was not the final process, those ten would go into another pile, and a number would be selected out, and reviewed for a roundtable discussion. Be thankful that there are organizations like QB to help college-bound students, who otherwise might not have the opportunity to attend, afford and hopefully complete a quality college program. It is estimated,(read the “Introduction” page xix, of “The Global Achievement Gap” - Tony Wagner) that 1 out of every 2 students who start college never complete any kind of postsecondary degree. With the economy the way it is, and jobs not growing, the decision to go to college causes a number of young people a lot of turmoil. For reducing that turmoil, and allowing a significant number of students to have no regrets on pushing for a quality education for their future, QB is to be commended. As I always advise people, read the instructions, do your homework, and in this case be flawless. Hopefully, being flawless was the case for liddydonaghy - please let us know. The best to everyone in their pursuits. I am heartened by the engagement and desire that you all have for your futures - please see them through. Take care, Mr. VC</p>

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<p>beahonest: i’d like to see you actually reply to one of itsonmars’ posts because those things are amazing. your posts are like copy and pastes of your previous ones. >.> can we get something new?</p>

<p>take your statement that they “encourage whites to apply and then discriminate against them.” where the heck did that come from?? it isn’t like they specifically searched out a bunch of white people. they encouraged everyone. specifically, they say, “If you are a student who has achieved academic excellence in the face of economic challenges, we encourage you to apply to the National College Match.” WHERE IS THE “encourage whites to apply” IN THAT?? would it be better if they said “okay, so what if 29% of the finalists were white? so what if 16% were match recipients? that’s like no one! let’s just encourage all of the other people instead!” ??? </p>

<p>uh. the rational answer was no, by the way. </p>

<p>like itsonmars said, where’s the false advertising in that? the criteria for being a finalist was not race. it was 1)economic challenges, 2)academic excellence, and 3)achieving academic excellence in the face of economic challenges. that means low income, good test scores/gpa/otheracademicstuff, and the capacity to overcome challenges and achieve success. if some minorities who became finalists managed to convey those things better than whites who did not become finalists, i don’t think that there is anything wrong with that.</p>

<p>i’ll be offended if we get the same response again. would you mind really thinking about what everyone actually wrote? we actually spend time (albeit a bit too much time) on these posts.</p>

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<p>Hey guys so I’m an interntional whose a non-finalist. I was pretty bummed about it when I first heard the news and honestly I kinda still am. Don’t be too harsh on beahonest. Okay, maybe he/she did have a lot of things to say that were not really right. Yet, I still see where he/she might get this attitude from.
I am aware that the “big day” for ya’ll is this thursday and just being the curious me, I checked out to see what stats the finalists had. I was honestly really surprised and I’m sorry to say this, but felt hurt. How could I have become rejected while they got accepted?? I do not have the best stats but I DO have better stats that those who became finalists.
Of course, probably one of the major factors of becoming a finalist was how the applicant overcame hardships. Thus, since these hardships are usually personal, the finalists would not have shared with the public. So, I am aware that those who have low stats became finalists because of their ability to withstand the hardships.
If I did not have this thought in mind, I might have become like beahonest.
He/she just saw the stats, not the true story, so it is almost certain for a person who has better stats than the finalists to become angry and I guess “pouty.”
I don’t want to say to beahonest “deal with it” or “get over it” because it IS hard to get over it. I don’t want to side with those who were being too harsh on him/her. Yet, I don’t want to say that beahonest is totally correct either.
I provide no solution to the commenters above but to just not be too mean on him/her and just let him/her be.
Come on guys, its already tough to not have become a finalist.</p>

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<p>^ You have the attitude of a 13 year old boy and your essays most likely conveyed that somewhere. There are certainly many factors as to way you may have no gotten finalist. Financial issues, cruddy essays, bad ECs, who knows? This is a LIFE experience. People get rejected, it is something you have to deal with. What are you going to do when you don’t get accepted to a certain school but your friend with lower stats does? Cry racism/ something along those lines?</p>

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<p>That was totally uncalled for.
They actually made a good argument.</p>

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<p>hapydreamr - “i’ll be offended if we get the same response again. would you mind really thinking about what everyone actually wrote? we actually spend time (albeit a bit too much time) on these posts.”</p>

<p>Amen to that. I’m actually already offended. And I’ve spent more time on this thread than is probably considered healthy. Thanks for reading my stuff though; I’m starting to think you’re part of the minority (get it?) who did, since beahonest clearly didn’t.</p>

<p>coobot - Like FBaez413 said, that was completely uncalled for. </p>

<p>sooohard - Honestly, I’d agree with your last statement, but you’re rational and you make sense. Beahonest is not and does not. At this point, I’m kind of doubting whether he/she’s serious about his/her argument or not, because. Well. Like hapydreamr said, it’s kind of the same thing over and over again without taking other arguments into consideration.</p>

<p>beahonest - Here’s a run-down of your posts:</p>

<ul>
<li>QuestBridge Sucks I - “QuestBridge is misleading and racist. If you look at my stats, I should have been a finalist. I was not a finalist, though— ‘Could it be because I am not a minority student?’ I have nothing against QuestBridge if it helps minorities. Also, QuestBridge is racist and discriminatory if it helps minorities. More untrue accusations. Comparison to scholarship program to a third world dictatorship. Complaint about QuestBridge application process that ‘takes literally days.’ Warning to white people. Demand to for change through internet forum. Doubt that change will happen.”</li>
<li>QuestBridge Sucks II - “Implicating remark towards well-meaning responses! Ignoring counterarguments to restate my own arguments yet again. Contradict self. Make weightless suggestion once more. Again, I have nothing against QuestBridge if it helps minorities. Shame on you if you’re okay with QuestBridge helping minorities. QuestBridge is misleading to white people. In conclusion, QuestBridge has false advertising, secretly works for the partner colleges, and sucks.”</li>
<li>Questbridge Sucks III - “Deflect towards QuestBridge. Misleading false statistics. Demand change, again. My stats are better than minorities, again. I should have been a finalist, again. ‘Did I receive fair treatment?’ Acknowledge the possible validity of a claim, ‘but I don’t think so.’ False advertising, again. Repeat QBSI. Illegal discrimination. Warning to white people, again. In conclusion, QBSII.”
Questbridge Sucks IV - “I claim I reread some things. Deflect once more. Hypocritically insult responses. Turn responses around, claim they serve to help my argument: QuestBridge is racist. Legal blabber. Cryptic allusion to suing and becoming a lawyer.”</li>
<li>Questbridge Sucks V - “Deflect, again. Claim this isn’t about race. New focus on honesty and fairness. Blame QuestBridge for ‘INVITING me’ to a scholarship program, even though QuestBridge says clearly in the FAQ that they invite basically everybody based on their scores on various tests. Repeat what was said in QBSI almost word for word. Deflect again. Repeat same things from QBSII and QBSIII.”</li>
</ul>

<p>We’ve tried a number of approaches, beahonest. People have offered you possible alternatives and reasons, counterarguments, valid points, anecdotes-- a whole smorgasbord of options that you could at least acknowledge, but choose not to. Though objectively, I know you’re a person and that you should be treated civilly, but honestly, I don’t care anymore. A rational person would have dropped this by now. I’m dropping this now. Hope life treats you well.</p>

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<p>I think Questbridge is something that should be much larger. I do not agree with it being bad, its vision is the gateway to more fair college admissions. What happens today is that minorities get a ridiculously high edge in applying to college, an article from some newspaper maybe NYT or WSJ said that being black “raises” your SAT score by 310 points. Quite frequently on CC you will see like HYPSM results thread and see 2400 asian 2400 asian 2350 white all rejected then a 2030 accepted with very poor stats but being black. What is supposed to happen is that people who come from a low socioeconomic status are the ones that “Should” be getting the edge, it makes sense like a kid maybe with a 2120 SAT but first gen and poor shows much more advancement than a kid with parents with two PhDs and 2400 and such. However more and more increasingly what happens is that in order to fill diversity quotas, which definitely do exist, the colleges end up taking the minorities that do not belong to low socioeconomic status, because no one knows that part in their little “diversity graphs”. Questbridge has a brilliant idea in promoting those who have overcome much to make it to where they have however I have noticed stats for URM’s generally lower, compared to the other categories. Also many have high gpa but ridiculously low (compared to non questbridge applicant) test scores, this is where I have a qualm. Its very misleading when students have high gpa but low test scores, granted test scores are not everything but it is a national standard to be measured by, and the most successful are also usually more intelligent generally. People cry foul on test prep preparation bc rich white kids can afford it but in reality anyone has all the resources to get a 2400 at their fingertips, books cost like 20 bucks and the internet is filled with tons of resources. I think that it should be more test based and EC’s rather than high school work. Just a thought, I wonder if anyone else agrees</p>

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<p>^ Bernie, I get your point. Although, I have to add that non-questbridge applicants typically have a better support system. Most questbridge finalists generally come from broken homes. Their parents may not speak English, not understand the college admissions process and not even encourage their child to do well on the SAT. College graduated parents or high income families will most likely be concerned with their child’s standardized testing, especially since they’ve been through the admissions game themselves. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>True, but it is easier to slap down say $1000 (I don’t know how much good SAT classes usually are, I study for it myself because it’s probably more than I can afford) and take the class, than to go online, research SAT materials, go to the library and find out what books to check out, or buy them and study on your own. I would say the latter takes more initiative, something college admission officers and questbridge admire, which is why they are given the edge. One has to take the responsibility to be successful, it’s not a hand-holding process, similar to how the real world is. </p>

<p>In addition, questbridge finalists, due to their low income, most likely go to low-achieving public schools where the majority of the student body is focused on their goal of community college or the local state university, which requires say an average 500 SAT score, give or take. As a result, the majority of the student body is not motivated to do extremely well on the SAT; some of the students don’t care at all. At a nationally ranked private school or a magnet school, where high income/college-graduate parents prefer to send their children, it’s more probable that students will want to go to colleges that Questbridge sponsors (ie Brown, Princeton, Stanford, etc.). Their friends are likely to be more ambitious, goal-oriented, and college-focused and the guidance counselors are more prepared for students who want to apply to top-ranked colleges. It’s quite an accomplishment when students who come from difficult backgrounds defy odds and gain credentials similar to their more privileged counterparts.</p>

<p>Not to mention, it’s been said that the SAT shows a preference to whites rather than URMs, demonstrated by the questions they ask and the passages they require people to read.</p>

<p>I apologize for making such a rebuttal. I don’t mean to offend. But, it is a personal issue since I, myself, am a low-income student trying to make it in the elite college admissions process, which in itself is already exceedingly difficult.</p>

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<p>I understand your point once again, but I’m not an outsider person I did questbridge too. I also come from low achieving public school juxtaposed between a community college and poor state school, most go there however being motivated I was able to search things using internet which almost everyone has access too to determine what I have, granted like children with rich parents have been prepping their whole life, there is still time in highschool to be motivated. Also again I still think that any determination to succeed can be met with hard work, I have friend who went from a low 2000 score to a 2380 by himself. When you look at standardized tests there really is no reason to get a math problem wrong, and alot of times people just rush, as well as writing because there is always a definitive answer. CR is different but with actual prep its possible. So many kids go to tutors and just go there to go and not work hard, that’s their fault</p>

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<p>BernieMadoff, I was reading your post about the SAT, and I personally don’t agree with you. In some cases, SAT cannot illustrate a true level of intelligence. For example, I scored 1930 on SAT… I guess not impressive at all . BUT I am the valedictorian (700 kids in my class) with GPA 4.0 (unweighted). So, if colleges just looked at my SAT I would have no chances. ALSO, I came to America 2 years ago (I didn’t speak English before) and was able to raise my score on PSAT from 1130 to 1930 in two years. So you see the progress, I worked on myself, but I cant beat that 2300+. I guess SAT test designed disadvantageously for immigrants. There are a lot of factors I don’t wanna discuss them. I would prefer to leave just SAT subject tests, they better reflect your true knowledge.
Another example - I have a really good friend. She is super-intelligent but due to a lot of difficulties in her life, she is really emotional. She just can’t calm down herself on SAT… thats it. She gets like 700 + on each section while preparing and like 500 + on the actual test. Test anxiety is actually a psychological disorder. It is unfair that one test should ruin her chances to get into a good college, I guess.
P.S. By the way, thank you QuestBridge for college match. I did became a finalist, I did became matched. ( and I am white so I don’t see any discrimination…)</p>

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<p>I didn’t get matched, but I’m not shouting blasphemy towards Questbridge or the schools I ranked…</p>

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<p>I’m assuming the OP will be applying to his QB schools via RD. If he is as strong of a candidate that he says he is, he’ll be back in May doing a mea culpa.</p>

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<p>Interesting. I wish someone at my school had told me about this before the deadline since I think I would have been a strong candidate (poverty-level, broken family, 2390 SAT, strong EC’s). Leave it to my school to notify me the day before. -____-</p>

<p>Interestingly enough, my old, very competitive school only had one person make it and obtain a full-scholarship to Princeton or something, an African-American girl who made B’s and C’s and had bad EC’s. No one in the school could fathom how she, out of everyone who had much better qualifications, made it.</p>

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<p>I agree completely with marval77.
The SAT nor any other standardised test is a good representation of intelligence, let alone intellect. The most intellectual people I know have all scored 1800 or lower, not including myself, but I don’t want to get into that. Yet we can spend hours upon hours discussing various topics, which others will so readily ignore, including biology, chemistry, philosophy, physics, math, etc. A couple of months ago, we sat down with the valedictorian of our school to see if we could have similar discussions. Not only did he not contribute anything towards it, but he admitted to never thinking about things outside of what one needs for school and tests. He scored a 2340 SAT and a 35 ACT. Looking at other people at the top of the class and other schools, I can’t help thinking that this is actually common.</p>

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<p>BTW, where were you matched, marval77?</p>

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<p>FBaez413, you are right but my point is a little bit different. I do not want to say that the people who scored higher than 2300 are not intelligent, it is not true. I have a lot of friends who have these scores and they all are really smart. My point is that people who did not get 2300 can be smart also but can’t prove it due to some factors (like test anxiety or English level).
SAT subjects tests are different, they cover just the material you studied. There are no “crazy” words in them (= (I am sorry for such an epithet, but I feel like this all the time when I see the word I never saw before in my life due to the lack of language experience). As a non-native speaker, I was able to score 780-800 on all of them. I think that they prove your “smartness” with less bias.
I got into a top liberal arts college. (I am sorry I don’t want to say which one because only a couple of people got matched.)</p>

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<p>Ok, I understand.</p>