<p>OK, so S is in an AP govt class and he hates it! To the point where he wants to transfer out :( . Before that ever happens, I advised him to talk directly with the teacher, then a GC or someone, then we'll get involved only if necessary. </p>
<p>S actually got one of the higher grades on the last test....a C- :rolleyes: Over half the class failed the test and nobody got an A or B. S's best friend (both are seniors) wants to major in history or economics in college, and even he hates this class (S wants to major in engineering, so he prefers math/science anyway). From what I hear, this teacher is really into asking questions that were never talked about in class and not in the book, likes to ask a lot of "trick" questions, has them writing 2 essays in 40 minutes on the tests. Is this normal? If most of the class was doing well and only my S was struggling, I wouldn't think too much of it, but if EVERYBODY is having a problem, what should he do?</p>
<p>I'm no expert... and I'd certainly advise you and your son to discuss the situation with his guidance counselor... BUT, my son had a similar situation last year in Honors Physics. The teacher was/is HORRIBLE (and everyone has KNOWN this for years, yet the Bd. of Ed. did/does nothing about it - thank you tenure!) Anyway, we should have taken him out of that class... for as it usually goes, THINGS DID NOT GET BETTER - ONLY WORSE during the school. But after time, it was too late to take him out. It was a very bad situation - very demoralizing as well as a waste of his time!</p>
<p>I'm assuming your son is ordinarily a good student. I think that when that many kids in a class are doing poor work, it's the teacher's problem, not the students'. Either the teacher is not teaching the material adequately or he/she has unreasonable expectations (or both). Is he a new teacher? I agree that your son should speak directly with the teacher to find out what he can do to improve his performance. If that isn't succesful, my gut instinct would be to discuss the matter myself with the department chair. That many kids doing that poorly reflects badly on the teacher, the curriculum, and the department.</p>
<p>This sounds like a no-win situation for your son, and I would advise him to withdraw. However, I don't recommend that he withdraw and just leave it at that. There are lots of AP classes available on-line, some through the College Board website...and including AP Government. I would recommend that he get himself enrolled in one of these on-line classes and make sure he takes the exam. He should communicate that he has done this to the colleges to which he is applying, so they see that it's not the material that is daunting and that he has commitment to the subject matter at hand. But get him out before it is too late.</p>
<p>You know, I'm all for talking and trying to work things out with teachers, etc... having my son talk with a teacher to find out how he can improve his grade in a particular class, HOWEVER, unfortunately, many times, there are certain teachers who just teach in a way that is awful (and thanks to tenure, nothing can be done about it)..and no amount of talking to them, discussing things with the principal and or superintendant (as we did in our situation) will change things - especially in time to make a difference to your child! In the future, my son will take a quick look at ratemyprofessor.com which has reviews of professors (there's also ratemyteacher.com - for school teachers, which we have found to be very very accurate)
Best of luck!</p>
<p>quiltguru, that is a great idea about an online course!! I may look into that.
He is a great student and has a 4.0 uw/ ~4.2w gpa. Ranked about 5 out of 470.....so I don't think it's a matter of him not grasping the content. I am not familiar with the teacher, but I don't think he's new.
We usually make our kids "tough it out" when there is a situation like this; whether in sports or whatever, because we don't like to encourage quitting when it gets hard, you know? But this seems like another thing. </p>
<p>BTW, I should mention he is on a block schedule: all kids take 8 classes (4 one day and 4 the next), so he does have a pretty heavy load. Plus he takes 2 other APs in addition to this govt class. And he is an intern after school. He is spending a lot more time on this class as far as study groups/projects/etc compared to any of his other classes. If all that work is not even going to get him a C, then I guess I can't blame him for finding an alternative.</p>
<p>My S had a similar experience with AP Govt. and AP Economics. Both were one-semester courses taught by one of the coaches. I wonder if this guy had ever actually seen a copy of the AP exam because he didn't teach to the exam at all. He had the kids doing "projects" all the time. I tried to get my S to self-study with one of the AP study guides because I could see that the class wasn't teaching him what he needed to know, but he wouldn't listen to me. Sure enough, he got an A in both of the classes but a 2 on both of the AP exams. The class salutatorian, who won the Outstanding Social Studies Student award as a senior, scored a 1 on both of the exams!</p>
<p>Your son's situation is different, but both are instances of poor teaching. My son was lucky, in a way, since he didn't have to send that poor AP score to colleges and his report card showed an A. Your son's situation is the reverse -- a poor grade but potentially a good AP exam score. I like the idea of dropping the course but taking it online. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.</p>
<p>definitely talk to the GC - some teachers are so bad, that self-study is a relief and more educational. </p>
<p>btw: Govt/civics is a graduation requirement in our state (Calif), so you'll also need to factor that issue into your decision if it is applicable to your state as well.</p>
<p>I've enjoyed this thread, even though I didn't start it! S has a similar problem, the Spanish teacher from H<em>ll. I feel guilty, I pushed him to take it solely because more than 2 years of foreign language is *recommended</em> (not required) by the schools he is looking at. An advanced science class or an AP social science would have been a much better choice. I've suggested that if it doesn't get better he should go talk to the GC. Maybe he can drop the class at the end of the semester and either self-study or pick up a decent 1/2 year course. Thanks for the self-study suggestion.</p>
<p>LOL. I hadn'e even heard of "ratemyteacher.com" before, but sure enough there the Spanish teacher is. The only frowny face in the whole list, with comments (17 of 'em!) along the lines of "worst teacher ever" "avoid if possible" "plays favorites and is terrible". Live and learn.</p>
<p>Scary thought: what if the college ad comes check the recommendation letters they get against ratemyteachers.com ?? I was surprised to see many of my daughter's teachers listed - my daughter tends to get along well with some of the less popular teachers (the ones the students complain are disorganized). Aaargh! Can you imagine getting a wonderful letter, only to have the ad com go online and decide that the teacher who wrote it only ranks a 2.7... and wondering why there are no letters from higher-ranked teachers? </p>
<p>Anyway, back to the original question - because I do have some thoughts on this:
I think this is really one of those decisions that absolutely needs to be made by the student without parental pressure. The parent should simply help with laying out options. Dropping a class doesn't look good for college apps, of course... but the more important issue is the student's overall satisfaction and happiness. Your kid can suffer through high school in the hopes that will help lead to a good college, then suffer through college with grad school in mind, then suffer through grad school with career in mind, then suffer through years of work with an insufferable employer..... or, somewhere along the line the kid can figure out how to balance things between external goals and the more immediate benefits of personal satisfaction. </p>
<p>Because of the consequences that come with that choice, I do think that ultimately the kid will be happier if he makes it on his own. If it were my kid, I'd rather have him either out of the class - or in the class knowing it was his own choice to tough it out -- than in the class and resenting me for making him be there.</p>
<p>Almost 40 years ago as a 9th grader I made the choice to drop out of the honors English track at my high school because of a personality conflict with a teacher, despite the dire predictions and warnings of my teachers. I honestly have never regretted that decision: it certainly didn't stand in the way of college or hurt me in any way. If anything, it was my first lesson in understanding that I was the master of my own fate (and education), and led to me feeling more in control and being more proactive in my choices. </p>
<p>My son debated in 12th grade whether he should drop French in favor of an art class... and chose to stay in French, because of that whole 4-years of foreign language thing. He wasn't unhappy, just bored - at his school the 4th year was in a combined class with the 3rd year - and I am sure he would have enjoyed the art class far more. French had always been an easy A for him, but the final semester his grade dropped to a D. (When I asked him about it, he said he was lucky the teacher didn't give him an F... something about the fact that he had hardly ever shown up to class and hadn't done any of the assignments). Fortunately, this did not cause his college of choice to rescind the offer of admission, though it did cause quite a few sleepless nights for me. But the moral is clear- making what looks to be the "right" choice on paper isn't always the right choice in real life.</p>
<p>If no one is going home with an A or B on their report card, an administrator or higher official in the school needs to be notified. This is completely unacceptable and unfair - this class cries out for a curve. I don't know about your school, but at mine we do not get a "weighted" GPA, so the valedictorian could very well be someone taking 5 art classes every semester with A's while someone else takes 5 APs and gets a 3.5...it's just sad.</p>