<p>Does anyone know how difficult Cornell's engineering program is. I have a brother at MIT, and they simply study constantly. Is this similar to Cornell?</p>
<p>no its not</p>
<p>depends on your major, and your goals. If you expect more than a 3.5 or a 3.6 in a major like AEP, chemical engineering, or electrical engineering and are not a natural genius, you will be working A LOT.</p>
<p>I plan to major in something like engineering physics.</p>
<p>You don't need to study constantly, even in engineering physics. I had friends in AEP who were on the rugby team or did research with a professor, etc.</p>
<p>That said, you will have to study. A lot. But most Cornell engineers have a life that MIT students would be envious of.</p>
<p>So in effect, you are saying that Cornell's engineering isn't as good? I don't know, I think MIT students are pretty happy even though they're working so hard, because they know that they're learning at such a high level.</p>
<p>I have no idea how you extrapolated that Cornell engineering is not as good based upon what you were told. In terms of facilities, and opportunities, Cornell engineering is definitely as good as MIT's... nevertheless, MIT's student quality is admittedly a little better than Cornell engineering's student quality. I think what CayugaRed was trying to say is that Cornell engineering students lead a balanced life as opposed to MIT students. Plus, not all MIT students are happy because they're working so hard and learning at a high level, I've met quite a few miserable kids at MIT.</p>
<p>Whoa there. I never suggested that!</p>
<p>A Cornell engineer and an MIT engineer, enrolled in similar courses of study, will learn exactly the same things. If this wasn't the case, tons of kids wouldn't come out of Cornell engineering and pursue graduate study at MIT.</p>
<p>The primary difference between MIT engineering and Cornell engineering comes down to student culture and the fact that MIT students, on average, will be a bit smarter and/or harder working. I was obviously being a little bit tongue in cheek, but the opportunities for a social life, extracurricular activities, and a well-rounded college experience are better at Cornell than at MIT. </p>
<p>It's interesting. MIT has a culture of being "hardcore", while Cornell has more of a culture of stressing and worrying about academics. But there are plenty of students at both schools who don't fit those molds.</p>
<p>What's the difference between being "hardcore" and stressing and worrying about academics?</p>
<p>Kids who are hardcore are trying to prove that they are more obsessed and interested in the material than others.</p>
<p>Make no mistake... this place is ridiculously hard for applied engineering physics. Of the two AEPs I know, one is a genius who got into MIT but came here because he got more fin aid... he has a 4.1 and puts in very little effort. But the other AEP I know is stressing and working constantly, and frequently worrying about his grades. How much work you're going to have to do depends a lot on your ability and how quickly you can absorb the material. Nevertheless, don't choose one school because it seems easier than another.</p>
<p>Well, I don't mean to be the devil's advocate, but it sure seems like Cornell's engineering is easy compared to those of top schools like MIT, which is pretty obvious, I think. I guess I was just wondering because Cornell has the #1 ranked undergraduate AEP program, which is pretty impressive, and it's one of the top reasons why I chose to attend Cornell. Anyways, I was just commenting because I feel like the difficulty of the engineering program at Cornell seems over-hyped, perhaps because those that couldn't get into MIT or Princeton came to Cornell (Like me)? Well, I'll be a freshman next year and I hope I'll be proven wrong with a challenging curriculum. I don't mean to sound like I'm putting Cornell down; I just want to put some relative meaning into this notion that Cornell's engineering program is extremely difficult.</p>
<p>It's my sense that Cornell's engineering program is on the same level of difficulty as Princeton, Stanford, CMU. But it's a notch below MIT and Caltech. The state schools are a different game due to the weed out process that often exists.</p>
<p>That said, while the caliber of the education is the same across these schools, the caliber of the student body may not necessarily be the same. The average Princeton engineer will probably be a little bit brighter and/or more hard working than the average Cornell engineer. (And they certainly will have scored better on the verbal sections of the SAT. Cornell's engineers need to become better communicators!) </p>
<p>The result is that the average Cornell engineer will have to work a little bit harder. In my experience, the common admit between Cornell and these schools who chooses Cornell (and there are many very good reasons to do) is not often found complaining about the difficulty of the course load. Rather's its the student who was accepted to Lehigh, RPI, and Cornell who finds Cornell difficult, and may often be found complaining or stressing out.</p>
<p>If Cornell was smaller, this wouldn't be a problem, as the lower quality students simply wouldn't get accepted. But true to Cornell's mission, the University chooses to educate a higher number of students and provide them with a top flight education. Some may think that this makes Cornell a lesser school. I happen to have the exact opposite opinion.</p>
<p>The proof is in the pudding. Of my Cornell engineering friends who went on for PhD programs at places like MIT, Princeton, Michigan, Stanford, and Caltech, none of them felt like Cornell underprepared them relative to their peers coming from other schools. In fact, they often felt the most prepared.</p>
<p>I think the same principles apply outside the engineering disciplines, if not moreso. Of friends who have gone on for PhDs in biology at places like Princeton or Penn who end up TAing students there, they end up finding that the courses are easier than the ones they had at Cornell. The same applies for a friend who is in a Psychology program at MIT and my peers who are "Teaching Fellows" at Harvard. The biggest joke is at Harvard, where the "Teaching Fellows" do almost all of the teaching, and the professors are often nowhere to be found.</p>
<p>The only programs I am willing to commit to as being "easier" at Cornell than elsewhere are AEM (when compared to places like Wharton or Virginia) and PAM (when compared to programs like Woody Woo at Princeton). Otherwise you are often getting the most rigorous undergraduate education you can get when you attend Cornell. And yes, this is even the case for the Hotelies. There is certainly no more rigorous Hotel Management program in the country.</p>
<p>If I may ask a second question, if I end up majoring in Engineering Physics (it's likely to change) can I still do grad work at a school like MIT that doesn't have an EP program? How does that work?</p>
<p>Is it as cripplingly difficult as some other top universities WUSI, MIT, or JHU? Or can you actually have a life with academics. I am naturally good at science but not a genius, wwill I have to spend all of my time studying?</p>
<p>Thanks, CayugaRed. Your explanations always show a deep sense of understanding of both sides of an argument.</p>
<p>You can basically do anything you want as an AEP major, as the career survey shows. Once you start developing certain academic interests, you will be able to work with professors towards applying for graduate school.</p>
<p>No. You can have a life and be pre-med at Cornell. Just as you can at all the other schools you mentioned.</p>
<p>
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Is it as cripplingly difficult as some other top universities WUSI, MIT, or JHU? Or can you actually have a life with academics. I am naturally good at science but not a genius, wwill I have to spend all of my time studying?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I know premeds who studied all the time. I also know premeds who were able to have active social lives. How much you'll have to study will depend on your innate abilities.</p>
<p>One big difference with MIT is that they have pass/fail the first semester and no fail the 2nd semester. This allows transition time and catchup time for students with different backgrounds and study habits that have to change a few things to truly excel. Cornell does not do this. My husband and I were in the EE PhD program at Stanford and there were just as many there from state schools and 2nd tier schools as from Princeton, Cornell, MIT etc. Few struggled, even us state school grads. Don't underestimate the talent pool at the top of other engineering schools, other priorities besides prestige may have dictated their undergrad choices. These are people who can swim wherever they are and do just fine. They round out the class in graduate school and if you aren't at the top of your top tier school, chances drop. Staying where you are for your Master's is definitely the path of least resistance. Comparing engineering schools, confirmed by our daughter's first year at Cornell, I'd say Cornell is the most state-school like where there's a sense of weed-out, boot camp challenge. It is a challenge for students coming from lesser high schools, who are playing catchup with classmates who are repeating the subjects. There's no grace semester on GPAs for adjustment. Stanford goes too far the other way with no such thing as failing, late drop class deadlines, etc. The students can get lazy and spoiled. We really like RPI for its approach to teaching, emphasis on hands on classes, small class sizes. We'll find out more when our son starts there next year.</p>
<p>Yea... to whoever said Cornell is easier than MIT, I don't think it is that much easier. Granted, most MIT kids are smarter than Cornell engineers... but the curve at cornell is so hard that I think Cornell engineering is of comparable difficulty to Stanford, and of a little less difficulty than MIT. MIT classes are usually curved up to around a B+... most cornell classes are curved to around a B- (2.7 to ur gpa) or sometimes even a C+. Yes MIT kids are smarter, but it's tough to get good grades here because classes are curved so low.</p>