Question about EA deferreds

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>" understand that looking at least casual when being interviewed for Harvard is highly recommended, but are you seriously gonna tell me that you would mark down a very enthusiastic, charming, intelligent, amazing student just because he or she attended the interview, as you put it, "[in the clothes] they slept in." </p>

<p>I actually have never had a candidate show up like that. I have heard, though, from a Harvard adcom that when she was an alum interviewer, she had some candidates who literally looked like they had rolled out of bed.</p>

<p>Not only were they very rumpled, they didn't seem at all interested in the interview. Believe it or not, there are students who sit through interviews answering questions as briefly as possible and oozing resentment. This typically is because they have no interest in going to Harvard, but had to apply because their pushy parents made them do so.</p>

<p>Thus, no, they would not be graded down just on looking rumpled. Their attire, however, would probably be described in an interview report along with their attitude. </p>

<p>A report might read something like, "Student came 10 minutes late and wearing a very wrinkled shirt and pants. His answers to all questions were one word or very brief answers. When asked what he planned to study, the student mumbled, "I dunno." When asked if he had any questions for the interviewer, he said, "Can I leave now?"</p>

<p>Finally, in response to your question: Harvard interviews are not fashion shows. Students aren't being graded on their attire. Frankly, I doubt, however, that an "enthusiastic, charming...etc." student would show up in attire that looked like they rolled out of bed. If so, though, it's unlikely their attire would be held against them. If I were the interviewer, though, I would ask them about their attire. </p>

<p>An answer like, "I was up all night putting out our student paper, and I didn't have a chance to change clothes," would be an easily understandable reason for the student's attire.</p>

<p>"I wanted to see whether Harvard interviewers look beyond the superficial" would be an interesting response that I probably would follow up with questions designed to figure out if the student was simply passive aggressive or was already acting like a social psychologist.</p>

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<p>I have never posted under any other name on this site. I can't see why anyone needs more than one name on an anonymous message board anyway, can you?</p>

<p>On another board where I have been posting for some years, I have likewise used only a single name. I would have used the same name here as well, but somebody took it first.</p>

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<p>Well, perhaps we can calculate (through the CC people) the number/percentage of EA deferred applicants who are admitted (out of the 3,100-ish deferred pool to see if that rate is higher) and the number of RD (or as Harvard says, RA) applicants that are admitted out of the RD pool (out of the 17,000-ish RD applicants).</p>

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<p>I can see your point NSM, that out of 22,000+ applicants (almost all very qualified) that you need some avenues to decide who gets in and who doesn't. But still, writing that you would ask about that person's attire tells me that you in fact ARE concerned about it (even though you say you wouldn't be concerned), which in my opinion is wrong. Who cares if the applicant's clothes are wrinkled. Maybe his or her laundry was done improperly because there weren't any more softener sheets, or the iron wasn't working and he or she would rather where a decent wrinkled shirt then say a plain old white shirt. You're going to make a note about that not even knowing why such a situation happened (and if someone told you truthfully that there were no more softener sheets left to smooth out the wrinkles in the drier, would you even believe him or her? - I mean, he or she may be trying to pull a fast one on you...)</p>

<p>Maybe I just don't get or choose to follow the Harvard attitude, but if some Harvard alums and current students seriously care about what someone wears to an interview for God's sake (and you framed your response in saying that for the most part the only people who would dress in such a way don't care about Harvard, which is so ignorant I can't even say any more about that), then maybe I'm glad I won't get in, because they would save themselves the postage of sending me all the extra housing and other documents. Whatever happened to accepting people through their personality, not by outside appearance.</p>

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<p>" But still, writing that you would ask about that person's attire tells me that you in fact ARE concerned about it (even though you say you wouldn't be concerned), which in my opinion is wrong. "</p>

<p>There's nothing wrong about asking about something that's unusual about a candidate. Asking about something isn't putting a value judgment on it: It's trying to get insight into a candidate's personality.</p>

<p>I've asked about unusual T-shirts that applicants were wearing, for instance. In some cases, the T-shirts related to ECs or interests. People's clothes do reflect their interests or character.</p>

<p>" Maybe his or her laundry was done improperly because there weren't any more softener sheets, or the iron wasn't working and he or she would rather where a decent wrinkled shirt then say a plain old white shirt. "</p>

<p>The answer still would say something about the person's personality.</p>

<p>"and if someone told you truthfully that there were no more softener sheets left to smooth out the wrinkles in the drier, would you even believe him or her? - I mean, he or she may be trying to pull a fast one on you...)"</p>

<p>Why wouldn't I believe the person? The answer would be odd, but not unbelieveable.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, it's not unusual for me to catch applicants in flat out lies during interviews. I don't mean about things about whether they used fabric softener: I mean about things such as books they've read, ECs or their family background.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, you are really distorting what I have said. How a person dresses does make a statement about them. This is simply common sense. Whether that statement will impact a person's admission depends upon more than whether clothes are wrinkled.</p>

<p>Wrinkled clothes on an articulate, intelligent, well read student who says that he wanted to better display his personality indicates a very different personality than would a wrinkled shirt on a student who shows up late, mumbles one-word answers and says his shirt is wrinkled because he hadn't thought about what to wear to his interview.</p>

<p>If you think that no one cares about what people wear to college interviews, you are sadly mistaken. What you choose to wear reflects your personality. To think otherwise is mistaken. An interviewer would be wrong to jump to a conclusion about an applicant who shows up with rumpled clothing. Asking about the clothing would help the interviewer determine whether the student is uncaring , was unusually busy before the interview or is like Einstein, not particularly interested in clothing because their mind is on far more important things.</p>

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<p>"the abcdefghijklm gibberish name guy is bylerly. you can tell by the style and of course eloquece of the writing."</p>

<p>"i dont think its byerly--cuz byerly is usually overly pro harvard whereas asadadsbads guy was making a case that harvard doesnt have as great of a yield as NSM and byerly were suggesting."</p>

<p>Byerly and I both have demonstrated a high level of enthusiasm for Harvard through our comments, and I'm sure we're both flattered that you consider our writing styles eloquent. However, I'm quite certain we are not the same person. We did share the same frustration on joining the board, apparently: I too wanted a different nickname, but abcdefg was already taken.</p>

<p>To clarify my comments: My central assertion had nothing to do with the yield, which is not under debate. I merely noted that exhibiting genuine enthusiasm in an application cannot possibly be a negative factor; it might even be beneficial in a few borderline cases.</p>

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<p>sorry, a-m, my mistake.</p>

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<p>Thanks for clearing some things up NSM. I guess in the world of high academia attire does reflect one's personality and they way he or she conducts him or herself. But, if I were in your situation (or in the business world, etc.) I wouldn't pay attention to anyone's attire - as you put it, an interviewer or whomever can "feel" a person's personality by his or her responses, without any mentioning about the attire or any other appearance features. That's why I consider myself different; I don't follow "society's" definition of people, whereas I think you do. If you were asked to describe the attire of a high academia/business person, I bet you would say a suit and jacket and tie for men and business formal attire for women. For me, I would be more casual, like a collared shirt and regular pants for men and dresses/skirts/pants for women. But you could even respond saying that people go to work in Hawaiian shirts! (like all the internet companies, who are very loose in their business skills). So I guess it's just a difference in generation. Maybe it will take longer for Harvard to loosen up, or maybe the trend will go back to the way you see it, but it will change nevertheless. And I don't care if you wear sleeping clothes to a future employment of mine, I'd still hire you ;)</p>

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<p>That's touching, crypto. Idealistic and perhaps a bit naive, but touching. ;)</p>

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<p>me likes it! cause me is dress like a tramp!</p>

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<p>"I guess in the world of high academia attire does reflect one's personality and they way he or she conducts him or herself. "</p>

<p>In the world in general, how people dress and wear their hair does reflect their personalities.</p>

<p>" If you were asked to describe the attire of a high academia/business person, I bet you would say a suit and jacket and tie for men and business formal attire for women"</p>

<p>I am not sure what you mean by "high academia," but how people dress in academia depends upon the people and upon the institution. I have been a professor, and wore things ranging from suits, to business casual to traditional African attire when I felt like connecting with my roots as an African American.</p>

<p>I would not, though, have gone to work in clothes that I had slept in. </p>

<p>When I interview, I tend to wear clothes that are business casual. Out of respect for the student and the experience, I wouldn't show up in clothes that I had slept in. Even though I would be the person in the power position, I wouldn't want to look like I didn't give a darn or didn't have any respect for the person whom I was interviewing.</p>

<p>Out of curiosity, how would you have felt if you went to your Harvard interview and the interviewer were wearing rumpled attire or pajamas?</p>

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<p>To be honest I would think that situation would be a little weird, but I wouldn't get all hot and bothered over it. That's that's person's business, not mine. I'm a very loose person when it comes to things like that (if you can't tell already). I've be raised in a family where business people (always called "yuppies" by my father) are looked down upon for being ignorant, arrogant, and greedy (my dad used to haul exotic cars for really rich business people and about 75% of them were jerks) - so I have to take fault for that, but that's just the atmosphere I've grown up in. So that's why when people even show the slightest concern for stuff like that I get all emotional and opinionated. Would I show up at a funeral/important meeting or occasion wearing slacks and a short sleeve t-shirt - no. But someone doesn't earn respect from me based on what he or she wears; it takes personality, morals, ethics, and other qualities to earn respect from me. Like I said, I guess a different style of opinions from myself and you.</p>

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<p>integrity, crypto86, that's what you've got. Must say i admired what you wrote.</p>

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<p>"But someone doesn't earn respect from me based on what he or she wears; it takes personality, morals, ethics, and other qualities to earn respect from me. Like I said, I guess a different style of opinions from myself and you."</p>

<p>Wow! I think you are jumping to some very rude conclusions. </p>

<p>No matter how you cut it, how people dress does make a statement about them. And just becuase I am aware that people's choice of clothing does reflect in some way their personalities doesn't mean that I don't judge people on their personality, morals or ethics. To suggest that I don't is very rude and is jumping to a ridiculous conclusion.</p>

<p>I bet that if you came to my house for a Harvard interview and I greeted you in my jammies, you'd immediately jump to some kind of conclusion about me. Perhaps you'd think that I was some kind of cool person who didn't care about outward appearances. Perhaps you'd think that I was lazy or ill. I doubt, though, that you would completely overlook the fact that I was in sleeping clothes. If you were a thoughtful person, instead of clinging to whatever conclusion you jumped to, you'd ask why I was wearing my PJs. </p>

<p>A statement such as, "I got out of my sick bed to interview you because I wanted to make sure that you had a Harvard interview," would reflect far diffferently on my personality, character and ethics than, "I figured, why get dressed? I'm not doing anything important today."</p>

<p>Meanwhile, for the record, when I set up my interviews with students, I tell them flat out to come casually and to not bother wearing a suit or anything unless they happen to becoming from some place in which that kind of attire is required. I tell them that Harvard and I care far more about what's in their head than what's on their bodies.</p>

<p>No one has ever come to an interview with me who has had dirty clothes or who has looked like they rolled out of bed. If a person did that, though, such unusual behavior would be something that I would ask about and that could be included in my report, depending on their answer. As I clearly indicated before, a student who replied that they were very rumpled after being up all night with an EC would be reflecting a very different personality than a student who said they were rumpled because they didn't think the interview was important enough to wear fresh clothes.</p>

<p>Surely you can see how those differing answers reflect differing personalities.</p>

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<p>With allowance for some change in styles, Andrew Carnegie's advice is still worth repeating.</p>

<p>When asked for his advice on how to get ahead in business, Carnegie declared: "Always wear your Sunday suit."</p>

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<p>Ok, after this post I'm finished because I don't want to turn this whole issue into something I'll regret. You write:</p>

<p>"If you were a thoughtful person, instead of clinging to whatever conclusion you jumped to, you'd ask why I was wearing my PJs."</p>

<p>I thought I've answered this question in several of my previous posts. But since you still seem to continue to miss my point, I'll say it one more time. It's none of my damn business what my interviewer wears when he or she interviews me. Talk about me being rude - in my family, asking people about the stuff they do, when it doesn't harm you in any way, was instilled in my head as being very rude. What gives me the right to question what my Harvard interviewer (or anyone with more authority than I, being wiser and older) wears?</p>

<p>Also, I didn't imply that you solely based your decisions on what the students wore; however, you've made it clear that attire is something that you think about if the attire isn't "proper".</p>

<p>If your posts intend to teach me that the clothes a person wears does indeed affect their personality, then there was no need - I'm aware of that. However, where our opinions divide is how important is that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've gotten the impression that you believe the only people who would ever attend a Harvard interview dressed "improperly" aren't fit for Harvard anyway, and that is very wrong. Yes, you've said it wouldn't be an issue to you if you learned during the interview that the student was an amazing person and said "I don't think attire truly represents a whole person", as similar to what you've said above. But whenever you continue to hammer down the point that attire does reflect personality, you always mention the "incapable" prospective Harvard student, who's being pushed by his parents and so on.</p>

<p>I can tell that you are getting frustrated with my views. You think that I am questioning your authority of being a Harvard interviewer, which says that you obviously have "been around the block" and know a lot more about life than I do. But that's my whole point above - about questioning authority. You personally wouldn't see anything wrong in questioning your attire if you presented yourself in a way that you weren't pleased with, or you think would offend or puzzle someone; I think questioning someone on that is rude. And you think me questioning you on this issue is rude, as you wrote above, as well as your consistent defense of your beliefs.</p>

<p>The whole and final (and repeated) point of mine is that though attire does reflect personality somewhat, I don't pay one bit of attention to it. It's none of my business. I just don't like being told what to wear by whomever (Mr. CEO, society, my school, etc.); in my opinion that's a restriction of freedom, and I do consider myself to be a free and progressive thinker. Of course I know there are boundaries (like no sexual innuendos, alcohol advertisements, etc. on clothing for school and formal occasions) but other than that, wear what you want to wear. Like I said, it's none of my business. And if someone makes my attire their business (especially if I don't know them that well), well then you're gonna hear it from me bigtime.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom - I understand your point about clothing reflecting personality. You've spoken a bit about students who dress without care. What would be your impressions of a student who attends an office interview dressed quite formally (for example a girl wearing white blouse, skirt, jacket, stockings etc). As an interviewer, would you see this as appropriate attire and as being respectful, or would you think the student was trying too hard to impress, was placing too much emphasis on a simple interview and should have dressed more casually?</p>

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<p>Okay, I'm the OP. I got some useful information here and would like to thank everyone for their contributions.</p>

<p>While I understand Harvard has the highest yield in the country, its still not a 100%. I would think a greater liklihood of attending if accepted has to count for something, however small it might be. My conclusion is that EA deferreds have slightly better chance than the regular RD pool....this seems to be the case at other Ivy league schools.</p>

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<p>I agree with abirch though there really wouldn't be any reason for harvard to try and raise its status as it is already number 1</p>

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<p>It has nothing to do with Harvard raising its status. I understand Harvard is the best (thats obvious), but that does not mean it would ignore things like yield. To me, it seems logical that Harvard would want people who want them back. I believe that even schools like Yale and Columbia have higher acceptance rates for deferred candidates.</p>