Question about race and admissions

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[quote]
I did not say that being Asian conferred "benefits in admissions,"

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Even though you may not think you did, saying "Being Asian actually increases your chances of admission" is saying that "being Asian conferred benefits in admissions"

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and OP did not ask that question.

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Nope. He actually did ask if his ethnic status would help him.

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He asked if being Asian helped his chances in the admissions process.

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see? Even you know that he did.

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The answer is "yes." By virtue of being Asian, the chances that you will attend college are higher than the chances of any other race in America.

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Wrong again. Asking if "being Asian helped his chances" is not asking "how well are Asians doing in college admissions?" You addressed the later.</p>

<p>My response to OP is neither deceptive nor inaccurate. OP did not ask about his chances relative to his SAT scores and GPA, it is you posters who interjected that analysis. It is not me who is "pushing an agenda."</p>

<p>I assumed everyone here is enlightened enough to know that elite universities do not admit students based on SAT/GPA statistics alone. That discussion (which many continue to raise from the dead) is superfluous.</p>

<p>...And by the way, if you are Asian, your chances of admission to HYP are greater than any other race in America.</p>

<p>@Bay</p>

<p>Err...I don't know how else to say this. YOU'RE WRONG.</p>

<p>Being asian does NOT give you a better chance at admission to HYP, it gives you a LOWER chance. Having a high GPA and good SAT scores is what gives you a higher chance.</p>

<p>The reason more asians are admitted is because they, in general, score higher and get better grades. Their race actually hurts them in the admissions process.</p>

<p>You would be correct if your statement was "If we take a random person of every ethnicity, the chances that the random asian would get into hyp are highest", you would be correct. However, your statement: "And by the way, if you are Asian, your chances of admission to HYP are greater than any other race in America." implies that a person with the same test scores, gpa, and ECs will have a better chance at hyp if they were asian.</p>

<p>There is a difference between correlation and causality. You purposely try to obscure it in order to misdirect.</p>

<p>I mean, what you're saying makes about as much sense as saying "If you're black, you have a higher chance of being retarded than any other race in america"</p>

<p>Sure there are more african americans with lower IQs than asians, but this has absolutely nothing to do with their race.</p>

<p>Here is OP's question:</p>

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[quote]
I am multiracial, half caucasion and half asian. Does this help or hurt my chances in the college admissions process?

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</p>

<p>Here is my answer:</p>

<p>"If you are Asian, your chances of admission are higher than any other race in America."</p>

<p>I implied nothing with respect to OP's qualifications, nor his school of choice, as he provided neither. Nor am I attempting to push an agenda or be deceptive.</p>

<p>I stand by my answer as correct.</p>

<p>/Prays</p>

<p>Dear God, </p>

<p>Please not another Affirmative Action thread.</p>

<p>Amen.</p>

<p>JP:</p>

<p>So the playing field is more equitable in a holistic admissions process, since higher grades and test scores benefit Asians, while other characteristics are or can be seen as a detriment. So, Asians like every other group, even URMs, have pros and cons during the process.</p>

<p>Bay, let me direct you to the OP's other thread on this forum: </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/473231-assess-my-chances-tier-2-a.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/473231-assess-my-chances-tier-2-a.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If it is truly your aim to give the OP some helpful advice, perhaps you could re-evaluate your earlier comments in light of his test scores, GPA, and target schools (Duke, etc?)</p>

<p>I have no idea what Duke is looking for in terms of academic and non-academic qualifications and I would not presume to guess.</p>

<p>If he Asian, however, OP's chances of admission to Duke are higher than those of high school seniors of any other race.</p>

<p>You mean, like, including all those high school seniors who did not bother to apply to Duke? Or to college, for that matter?</p>

<p>How your comments are meant to be relevant to the OP's individual situation is really beyond me. But surely it is clear to all readers of the thread by now that being helpful is not your intention. So I think I'll stop here.</p>

<p>Duke still gives Asians a bit of a bump in admissions, like most other southern schools.</p>

<p>Ethyrial,</p>

<p>You are certainly welcome to discount my statements because they do not comport with your own agenda, but that does not make them inaccurate. It would behoove you to consider all perspectives on this issue, rather than wallow in a state of victimhood (I mean that in the rhetorical sense, and not directed at you), as you can be assured that all such perspectives will ultimately be considered by the final adjudicator in the Jian Li case (this is what your frustrations are about, isn't it?).</p>

<p>And I take offense at the insinuation that I am not intending to be helpful to OP. My answer was the most direct of any offered on this thread.</p>

<p>Bay, </p>

<p>I find it very hard to believe that you'd honestly think the OP cares if a random Asian individual in this country has some greater chance of being in an arbitrary college than an individual of another race. The OP is a high school student navigating the admissions process. I'd venture to guess he was thinking more of his own individual circumstances -- to which your comment almost certainly does not apply (unless you have evidence that a multiracial white/Asian applicant to first-tier school has a higher-than-average chance of acceptance than an applicant from other ethnic groups?) </p>

<p>You're a long-time member of these forums, so surely this must have occurred to you before you posted your first comment. If you still stand by what you said based on the mere wording of the OP's question, I don't know what else to say. That seems to me about as distasteful a way of arguing as when forum members sidetrack debates by calling out grammar mistakes.</p>

<p>Also I'm puzzled by your comment about the Jian Li case -- I have not been following it, nor have I made any mention to it in past posts. Why should I be "frustrated" about the situation? I did not step in here originally to argue my own agenda; I posted simply to refute what seemed to me a misleading line of argument. (That said, I'd welcome a more constructive conversation on this issue of which you speak. But if you care to continue, perhaps we could take this to PM?)</p>

<p>Ethyrial,</p>

<p>If OP is interested in soliciting input about his admission chances to a certain university as an Asian applicant with certain qualifications, then of course he must name the university and tell us what those qualifications are! He did not do so, and I don't understand why you expect that I must fill in the blanks for him.</p>

<p>If you find my statement that Asians have the highest chances of admission of any race to be distasteful, then I am not surprised. We have dialogued in other forums in which you have argued (in the same vein as Jian Li, whether you are aware of it or not) that Asians are held to a higher standard in admissions. Am I wrong about this? If so, please set me straight.</p>

<p>Bay, </p>

<p>But you WERE given the OP's qualifications and universities of interest in the link which I provided! Did you then make any honest attempt to look up the statistics as they pertain to him? Not at all!</p>

<p>Here, let me provide an example:</p>

<p>Duke University, 2008. Unfortunately there is little information out there about multiracial applicants, but we can assume the acceptance rate for white applicants is probably close to the overall admit rate of 22% in this year.</p>

<p>As for Asian applicants, there were 3,529 applicants in the class of 2008. 3,179 acceptance letters were mailed to applicants of all races, and the class ended up being 17% Asian, so barring some large discrepancy between admit and yield we can assume ~546 Asians received acceptance letters that year. This is a 15.49% admissions rate. (Of course the actual admissions rate may be higher when one adjusts for yield. But by how much more?)</p>

<p>If you'd be willing to do the same for the OP, for some of the other schools he has listed, it's probably more the sort of "direct answer" he's looking for.</p>

<p>Bay, to go back to your other question, I do believe Asians are held to a higher standard at top-tier schools. I believe this simply because the numbers (# of Asians admitted / # of Asians applying) tend to suggest it, wherever such data is available. I do not form opinions based on anecdotal evidence, and I will change my mind on this issue the moment I am presented with a substantial body of evidence to the contrary. Would you happen to have such data? Perhaps you could try crunching some of the numbers here: [url=<a href="http://www.asianam.org/2008.htm%5D2008%5B/url"&gt;http://www.asianam.org/2008.htm]2008[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>I find your statement distasteful simply because I was taught to feel this way about all half-truths based on wordplay. Well, clearly you seem to think you've presented truth in a form completely relevant to and in the spirit of the OP's original query, so we'll just have to disagree here. As I have said before, other readers of this thread can form their own opinions on which way it is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Hmm, why is it that Asians are the ones typecast as boring “math grinds?” Why is it that Asians must disprove stereotypes in the admissions process while students from “under-represented” do not have to disprove anything and in fact receive preferential treatment for being members of their races? Why is it that being Asian is worth the equivalent of a fifty point deduction in the SAT score?

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that's not fair of you say. there is no person in this world who does not have to overcome something. in regards to under-represented minorities, they have to overcome stereotypes about their intelligence and values.</p>

<p>also, don't use that SAT vs. Race argument. it's a bad point. the whole premise behind that argument is that the SAT is the most important factor in regards to college admissions, which i think everyone on here knows is not true.</p>

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[quote]
But you WERE given the OP's qualifications and universities of interest in the link which I provided! Did you then make any honest attempt to look up the statistics as they pertain to him? Not at all!

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why are you guys making such a big deal out of what Bay said? not everyone is going to go through the OP's old posts just to find out what schools he's applying to.</p>

<p>if the OP wanted to find out about his chances at a specific school, then he or she would have said, "how will my race affect me at <specific school="">."</specific></p>

<p>
[quote]
Bay, to go back to your other question, I do believe Asians are held to a higher standard at top-tier schools. I believe this simply because the numbers (# of Asians admitted / # of Asians applying) tend to suggest it, wherever such data is available. I do not form opinions based on anecdotal evidence, and I will change my mind on this issue the moment I am presented with a substantial body of evidence to the contrary. Would you happen to have such data? Perhaps you could try crunching some of the numbers here: 2008

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just curious, why do you think there are "higher standards" for Asians?</p>

<p>OP:
your race won't matter if you remember to be yourself and not conform to stereotypes. plus being multiracial is usually interesting.</p>

<p>Ethyrial, </p>

<p>I am not disputing any hard data you have presented, but you have not provided enough to draw any accurate conclusions. I had no intention of opining on OP's chances of admission to Duke; he did not ask for it in this thread and I did not respond to the other thread because, as I already stated I have no idea what Duke is looking for.</p>

<p>According to collegeboard, Duke's student body is 23% Asian. Assuming that this figure is accurate, then if an Asian high school student were to ask me if being Asian helps his chances in admission to Duke, then I would respond (as I have done), that Asians have the highest chance of being admitted to Duke of any race in America. If you can refute this statement with accurate hard data, then bring it on.</p>

<p>I have never foreclosed the possibility that Asians are, in fact, discriminated against in college admissions. I look forward to the outcome of the Jian Li case, because i believe this issue needs to be put to bed once and for all. That said, for some reason whenever a poster such as myself, offers an alternative analysis of the problem, many on this site are quick to discount it if it does not support the Asian bias theory.</p>

<p>Furthermore, if American universities are ultimately forced to admit only the highest stat students, resulting in college campuses composed of only one or two races, you can pretty much count on lawsuits coming down the pike alleging that those type of admissions criteria are de facto discriminatory to all other races in the U.S.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Duke still gives Asians a bit of a bump in admissions, like most other southern schools.

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</p>

<p>Uhh, no they don't. And the other Southern schools aren't likely to admit Asian students w/ lower qualifications - Asian students w/ qualifications similar to the other admits, otoh, may very likely have a higher chance of admittance.</p>

<p>Bay: Asians as a group may have a high admit rate, but we are speaking to one SPECIFIC person who wonders how his race will affect him in comparison to a hypothetical person who has his SAME QUALIFICATIONS but is not Asian. Therefore we isolate the trait of "race" and **do not consider traits that may correlate with the race of Asian, such as high academic achievement and focus on elite school admissions. **Compared to a Caucasian or a URM with his SAME stats, ECs, essays and recs, he will be disadvantaged. Therefore, his race is a disadvantage.</p>

<p>LOL, I love to read the Asian resentment on this website. Take offense to it if you'd like.</p>

<p>EDIT: I'm gonna get so flamed.</p>