I agree in part, but at the same time, ED students are rarely offered merit aid. So I’m not sure they expect an applicant to switch to ED to show true interest. If the student is really interested, he should write a LOCI and see what happens.
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Yes, yield protection is most definitely real, and Tufts is absolutely still doing it. I didn’t know that Northeastern was doing it - that has become the “go to” school for a lot of the high stats kids from our excellent public high school in the Northeast; so much so, that after the EA/ED round, Northeastern is sending these kids free application vouchers. I haven’t heard of a single case of a high stats kid being rejected by Northeastern. After having seen what’s happened to some high stats students, I’ve come to believe that the answer to it is to, short of binding ED (which isn’t really binding if you can claim that the financial aid award is insufficient), tell and show every school that you love them best. But your son did everything possible to prove that he was interested, and still got deferred!
At this point, I’d suggest a letter of continued interest, submission of any further awards/achievements, of course sending his fall 2021 grades, and a call from his guidance counselor to CWRU admissions dept, if they’re willing. That’s what a prep school guidance counselor would do, but of course, many of them have access that public school guidance counselors do not.
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I think the yield protection issue with CWRU is different. It isn’t about holistic admissions. BTW, I don’t blame schools which have very low yield (such as CWRU) for practicing yield protection. No college wants to be a backup for some other colleges. (I do blame UChicago for doing the same, however, because it already has high yield).
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They very well may, but how do we explain the very high stats students that do get in? What’s the piece of the app that makes adcoms think they won’t attend?
People say this all the time, but offer no evidence. One of my son’s classmates had very high stats and attended Tufts. How can we explain that?
My son attended a school that was rumored to yield protect. He had very high stats and got in. It turned out the “Bobby got into brand X, but was rejected by brand Y” was because Bobby wasn’t filling out their application correctly. Simple, non-conspiratorial explanation.
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I agree it’s a difficult decision for students who need FA. OP seems to be looking for merit-based scholarships, which CWRU does seem to routinely provide. It knows that it needs to offer them to attract students like OP’s son.
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Most of them applied ED or ED2. Some others may have aspects in their applications that make them less likely, from CWRU’s point of view, to be candidates for some other schools.
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Here’s the horses mouth on merit aid ED:
It appears they don’t tie merit awards to any application timeline, so maybe he’d be offered merit aid ED. But if he isn’t, and you can fore the school, he is obligated to attend. If other colleges are also going to offer potential merit awards, it makes sense to wait until RD I think.
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I should have been more clear that there were HIGHLY qualified students who got in! I was just so surprised at the number of students, with stats similar to my son’s, who were deferred. We added Lehigh, CWRU and Northeastern all to his apps. at the sage advice of folks on here. He certainly doesn’t regret any of those choices- I had just never heard of yield protection. I’m certain this won’t be the last deferral/rejection for him!
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Go and look at the results thread for Northeastern the past couple of cycles and you will see a lot of high stat kids being deferred (not rejected). Another school that does this is American. I remember looking at the Naviance scattergram for American a couple of years ago and if you didn’t know any better, you would think it was actually a disadvantage to have high stats.
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Didn’t mean to worry you OP. You have two top state schools in Virginia, which is a big ace in the hole. Plus, your kid already got into ND, which speaks to the type of applicant he is. Your son will have some excellent options when all is said and done.
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You can check the college’s common data set, section C7, to see if “level of applicant’s interest” is considered. If so, then it is likely that an “overqualified” applicant is likely to be viewed by the college as someone using the college as a “safety” and unlikely to attend. In that case, the applicant would have to play the interest game to avoid a waitlist or rejection.
CWRU says that “level of applicant’s interest” is “considered”: https://case.edu/ir/sites/case.edu.ir/files/2021-12/CDS_2020-2021.pdf
Old thread on Ways to show a high "level of applicant's interest" (FAFSA order no longer applies)
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Notre Dame is phenomenal - so congrats on that.
Case is phenomenal an a deferral isn’t death. Yes, a student should do what they need - the LOCI, etc. but then emotionally get it out of their head and act like it’s a rejection so they focus on others (although you have UND so you don’t have that issue).
But, as an example, UGA and U Miami defer a ton. My daughter was deferred from EA to RD and got in RD with the same merit kids who got in EA received ($25K). The UGA and Miami boards were littered with deferral horrors but in so many cases, it ended up fine.
It might simply be CWRUs strategy - take the tippy top and then let the rest wait.
So it might still work out fine!!
Some things are unexplainable - like kids who get into Harvard but not UNC.
But in the end, the student may very well get a CWRU acceptance. And even if not, UND and CWRU are close enough in rank that it is possible. And neither is highly ranked in CS - although Case is a more STEM oriented school.
Best of luck to your student!!
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I’ve read through the Case decisions and what they are doing is really blatant: if you ED and are in their range or above, you are accepted. If you EA’d were above or below their range, you were rejected. The former, it must be predicted, will not attend as they are likely to get into a better school. So they don’t get in.
I did not see a single high stat kid who ED’d not get in.
This is purely about yield- they obviously have an algorithm to determine who is using them as a safety, and aggressively reject them. (They have a great CS Sept, right?).
BTW- from what I understand, they might well be right. Many of the perfect 36 ACT kids ended their comment by saying, “it wasn’t out top choice anyway”. Going back to OP, will they attended CWRU over ND? I doubt it.
ED is entirely to the schools advantage- they get 100% yield by accepting these kids, who will get far less aid (I have no proof). Fill 60% of their class ED with high paying kids. Then they send out fee waivers to get the masses apply and accept 20% or less of them.
Lower acceptance, higher yield, and less aid provided. Sounds like. Win to the school to me.
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It stinks. I was really pushing CWRU to my kid who is a match in MANY ways with CWRU, even though it is a flight away.
When hearing they reject OP who was clearly qualified, had shown a ton of interested and made great effort to visit- only to be rejected for the sacrilege of not EDing… wow. Tells you an awful lot about the school and I doubt we bother even looking at the school now.
Not to gang up on CWRU because that isn’t the subject of this thread, if you can identify other schools that aggressively yield protect, it would be appreciated. We need to compare financial offers. We can’t tKe it or leave it from one school.
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If you look in a college’s common data set, section C7, you can see if it considers level of applicant’s interest. If it does, “overqualified” applicants are likely to risk rejection or waitlist if they do not show whatever extra interest (beyond applying) that the college wants to see.
UC alumnus
CWRU does consider it- its not a top priority.
However, OP is a sample size of 1…but demonstrated a ton of interest. Plenty. They were clearly identified by some algorithm as unlikely to attend.
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My son got into Case RD with merit. He had scores and GPA that would lead many to think he was a candidate for yield protection. He did show them a lot of interest and he opened their emails and clicked their links . I did the same for the parent emails they sent me and i spent a lot of time on their site.
Case was definitely under strong consideration for him. If it is a school your kid likes, apply but show a lot of interest.
CWRU, like others including Tufts which is on a different thread now, is need aware.
What you are describing is basically pay to play.
At Tufts 2/3 are full pay so who do you think they will let in.
For CWRU in 2018/19 46% of kids received a need based grant of which the average grant was $31k.
These schools need full pay to cover the nut. So if they get a high star kid who can pay it’s a win for them.
Don’t forget, first and foremost these are businesses with administrators…ie corporate execs…with some making 7 figures.
It stinks but just like you have a choice where to apply, they have a choice who to accept.
If you want any more evidence of this behavior note all the schools adding ED2…a huge win for them when someone applies this way.
Sort of…Rice it Chicago turned you down. We’ll take their seconds!!
Not trying to be cynical. It’s just reality.
A meet the average, full pay kid is golden at a need aware institution in ED2 where the yield is important. You needn’t demonstrate interest in ED…just applying is doing so.
Schools are taking more and more from ED as it benefits them. Penn is saying this year more than half will be ED.
Unfair to families but they (colleges) have a product the consumer wants and will do anything to get.
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This is the world we live in: kids who really know the system fly in for visits, know to click on emails and spend time on websites and other forms of “interest”, and in the ultimate sign of their privilege: apply ED because money doesn’t matter.
Yes- clearly these arebusinesses where the school seeks the perfect class (one aspect of which is keeping financial need as low as possible) of high a stat kids….the well off, sophisticated kids seek and find the ultimate school for them- the absolutely best they can possibly get into based on their private coach’s algorithm, and makes the cost blind decision to ED. Both parties are happy with the optimal decisions. All market clear.
No sense in whining. This is the system. Based on a quick looks, these are the schools where this is alive and well (from collegevine):
- American University
- Boston College
- Boston University
- Case Western Reserve University
- Franklin and Marshall
- George Washington University
- Grinnell College
- Johns Hopkins University
- Kenyon College
- Lehigh University
- New York University
- Northeastern University
- Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
- Rice University
- Swarthmore College
- Tulane University
- Tufts University
- University of California Davis
- University of California Los Angeles
- University of Chicago
- University of Michigan
- University of Southern California
- Washington University in St. Louis
And let’s be clear. Applying ED is not always “interest”- it is often a kid giving the school what they want: a guarantee of attendance- in exchange for a better chance of being accepted into the “best” school they could hope to get into.
Let that sink in and the balance of power is so clear. Based on a mirage than any school is actually willing to sell one’s soul for.
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