Until she hears back from her RD schools, it really is hyperbole.
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You are making assumptions here. You were deferred. Not turned down. In many ways they may want to compare you vs other students. Or maybe they want to see how much interest you express as that is considered. So it’s not just stats and ECs that they consider.
In essence, you were not willing to guarantee them an entry so they chose not to guarantee you at the early time. But they have not said no.
Also, we don’t know look a how competitive your daughter is in regards to LORs or essays. Maybe she didn’t answer the prompt or had many typos?
In the case of CWRU their yield is horrible so if they are practicing yield management they need new people and a new strategy. It’s why they waitlist a third of applicants…so they can get their class filled after so many admits go elsewhere.
On the other hand schools like Penn targeting over half the class in ED, that’s yield management at its finest.
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Average excellence?! She is in 99 percentile in SAT takers in US . Top 1 percent . With perfect grades and strong EС , including publication
What else is expected of a HS student now ?
Be part of the mission to the moon ?? ))))
And , I am not even discussion the absurd cost of those private top 50 schools …. Forget merit
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She is a published author and an excellent writer, taking AP lit and last year AP English , got 5 on the AP exam ))) . Students of her caliber check their work before submitting . There were no typos )))
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While there can be many reasons for deferral, let’s not readily dismiss the fact that many schools (Northeastern and CWRU are examples) do in fact yield protect. They will defer many well qualified candidates just because they think they won’t attend.
Also, Northeastern does not have a supplemental essay so there’s no place to express interest. It’s all about their algorithm (they even recently hired a data guy as Chief Enrollment Officer).
So - many well accomplished kids (just as qualified as those who were accepted) will get deferred simply because of yield concerns. Or because the algorithm says the kid will not attend. And I think it’s insensitive to then suggest they weren’t as good as those who got accepted. Or that they wrote bad essays or had typos, etc.
With holistic admissions, there’s no transparency into who gets admitted, deferred or rejected. We here on CC are not privy to others’ applications. So let’s be respectful of all applicants.
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Thank you
My point is that it’s not just about stats or even accomplishments. They have other kids a$$ criteria and again they haven’t said no. If your student has and is demonstrating interest, you’ll likely get a favorable decision.
CWRU has poor yield so I think this goes beyond. If you were ED instead of EA you likely would have seen a sooner positive result.
Good luck.
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But again deferred does not necessarily equal rejected.
You did not guarantee them that you would attend if accepted. In essence you asked for more time…until May 1.
That’s really all they are asking for…more time.
Their yield is less than 15% so taking out ED it’s really low !! And they know this hence their wait list is a third of applicants. Think about that. 9760 offered a spot!!
That sounds like survival to me, not yield protection.
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Are you referring to NEU, or some other college?
There are 3.7 million HS seniors this year. There are 26K+ HSs in the US, all of which have a valedictorian. My D’s HS alone had 28 students who were in the top percentile for SAT or ACT with 4.0+ GPAs. The reality is that the top students are applying to same T100 schools and the competition is fierce.
No one is diminishing your D’s accomplishments. She has a fabulous admit with McGill and I’m sure there will be more to come. Help her manage her expectations. Her hard work is not undone if she doesn’t get into her top choice US college. Her hard work has set the stage to be successful in college and beyond.
Please tell her that college acceptances or deferrals or rejections don’t say anything about who she is as a person. Each school has their own institutional priorities. They are looking to balance their class based on things totally out of your daughter’s control - geographic location, gender, major, etc…
I’d encourage you to help her celebrate the acceptances she already has. She sounds like a very bright young woman who will go far in life!
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Now, that is a balanced, supportive message that does not cast doubts on the strengths of a deferred candidate’s application or diminish their accomplishments. Thank you!
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Sorry. I thought I was replying to @norik95 who mentioned CWRU. MY comment was related to them (cwru).
Edit - CWRU is 14.8% but NEU is much higher - 32.5% so they may be similar schools but NEU has far more “yield” than CWRU so probably plays the game better. They do not provide wait list size.
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The year my daughter applied to UNC there were 25,000 OOS applications (10,000 in-state) and an 18% cap. There is no shortage of OOS applicants with high stats and amazing ECs. My daughter had a friend who was a very talented and successful musician, there was a student who sold her artwork nationally and raised a lot of money for various organizations etc.
Once you factor in legacy (higher acceptance rate for OOS legacy) and recruited athletes, it makes an OOS acceptance even more challenging. There might be reasons why a “lower” stats student is accepted over another “higher” who was WL’d. Nobody knows what another students application looks like and what they may bring to the campus environment.
It appears that some schools do practice yield protection, but with a 20% acceptance rate at Northeastern one cannot automatically assume an acceptance. Likewise, one should not assume an acceptance at Case when 25% of the school has higher than a 34 on the ACT (I have heard that they practice yield protection, but we don’t really know exactly what goes on, demonstrated interest, etc). There are many, many superior students applying to these schools. My daughter interviewed with a group of students at one particular school. One was a pilot and a chef who flew meals to food pantries all over the country. She also met a few who had published papers in physics (hard to believe). I was quite naive until I saw what was going on out there.
Schools with these acceptance rates are not safeties for most students. As noted above, top students will not be stocking shelves- they will find success at a very good school.
I think it’s important to be humble (not accusing). I also think it’s important to really know a particular school- school traditions, campus culture, school environment, specific details about the campus, etc. Talk to students, discuss life on campus, get detailed information about a specific event etc. Schools that do practice yield protection want to know that you are interested and took the time to do your research.
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I know you didn’t intend this but I chuckled at how holistic admission can now be used by colleges to hide practices such as yield protection. To me, it’s become a bit farcical.
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This thread about yield protection .
I have only documented here because I fill that is whats happening , and gave a specific example. My sample set is very small )))), but the goal is to document the trend , and argue that what is happening is not a hyperbole.
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My D got a fee waiver out of the blue from CWRU. She never expressed any interest (had not heard of them) so I wonder whether it’s to lower their admission rate. Will never know, though, as she didn’t apply.
I see many parents here who are angry and/or incredulous that their son or daughter was deferred or rejected (usually deferred) by a school for which their student was overqualified (at least based on historical statistics). Before getting upset that your student did not get accepted outright by a given school (let’s call it ABC University), ask yourself a few questions:
- If your student was accepted by all the schools to which they applied, would ABC University have been been near the top of their list and under serious consideration?
- Did your student demonstrate real interest with tours, interviews, information sessions, etc.?
- Did your student apply ED to ABC U?
- Is ABC U a school that is often used as a safety for more highly ranked or selective schools?
- Does ABC U have a low yield rate?
- Does your student’s high school have a track record of seniors applying to ABC U, getting accepted, and then not attending? In other words, do the GCs at their high school have students use ABC as a safety?
- To how many schools did your student apply?
- If ABC U required a school-specific essay, did your student go to the trouble to research the school, talk to alumni, and write a thoughtful piece that conveyed a love of the school and desire to attend?
As crazy as applying to college has become for high school students, it has become nuts for the schools too. Applications at highly ranked schools have increased drastically over the past couple years (at some as much as 400%), and there are limits to how much a school can increase enrollment. Meanwhile, students are littering the countryside with applications to schools via the Common App, often applying to schools they have not visited, and in some cases, know little about beyond what is published in commonly used guides. I have seen posts on CC by parents whose student applied to 25 schools, ranging from MIT to second tier state schools. Finally, with students deferring due to COVID, and reasons outlined above, schools have much more uncertainty about how many accepted students will attend in a given academic year (look at Purdue).
So, put yourself in the position of the school. You want to accept students who 1. are academically qualified, 2. are a good fit, 3. bring something unique to the school, or fit some need (the marching band needs trumpet players!), 4. fulfills DEI goals, and 5. are likely to attend. You have a finite number of slots; do you give them to students who are a good fit academically, or do you give them to students who are probably using you as a safety and are almost certainly going to attend a higher ranked school if accepted?
There were a good number of posts about Case Western, so let’s use it as an example. It is a strong, although not top, university. Case’s acceptance rate is 30% and average SAT of in incoming freshman, according to Univstats, is 1430, so it is fairly competitive, but not crazy. Their yield rate, however is only ~15%. Carnegie Mellon’s acceptance rate is just 17%, with a mean SAT of 1510. Surprisingly, CMU’s yield rate is a modest 36%. At the top of the heap is MIT with an incredibly low acceptance rate of just ~7%, and average SAT of 1545. Not surprisingly, MIT’s yield rate is a healthy 73%. (Note that these SAT scores here are for entire universities, and engineering schools will require higher scores. I am using SAT scores as a proxy for academic qualifications - yes, I know they are imperfect and don’t tell the whole story about a student. Roll with it.) A student with a 1525 SAT would likely apply to CMU as a target, MIT as a reach, and CWRU as a safety. The AOs at CWRU understand this, and to protect their yield - which needs all the help it can get - they defer this student and ask them to reapply ED II. Frankly, they are tired of being the consolation prize and want the student to commit to them. Now, this student may want to come to Case because they have family in Cleveland, they are interested in a program with ties to the major research hospitals next door, or they know Case is generous with merit aid, while CMU is stingy. Then they can apply to Case ED II and take that sweet, sweet merit aid. The crazy thing in this example is that CMU has a relatively low yield rate because - except for CompSci - they are the safety for MIT, Stanford, CalTech and UC Berkeley.
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In the country that US is - everything based on competition . That what moves the economy various markets . Acceptance to university now days is a very competitive , you said it yourself .
There is nothing humble about this . I am repeating myself . 5 students from her school got accepted to NEU with much lower academic standing . She should Be humble about that ? Her and valedictorian guy got deferred. What kind of competition is that , when less qualified gets in ?))) oh yes … I forget… they are looking for a • balanced class” and performing “ wholistic reviews “ )))
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I, too, think it might not be so fun for top schools to have to review 45-50K (or more) applications for a class of 1300-1600. Yet, I don’t see these schools doing anything but encourage more applications (i.e., we have no minimum cut offs, 80% of applicants can do the work, we don’t track demonstrated interest, etc.).
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In the same way that an applicant does not have to accept any particular admittance (ED aside of course), a school does not have to accept any particular applicant. If we preach the importance of fit on the part of the student we should at least allow the school the same courtesy. Just because an applicant has reached a certain bar of achievement it does not mean that they are the best fit for the school’s institutional needs and goals.
Or, to put it another way…it’s not you, it’s them. So leave the entitlement at the door when you begin this journey because bringing it along with you only makes it more difficult.
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