Acceptance rate is usually calculated by others, based on the numbers the school published, as the ratio of the number of applicants accepted over the total number of applications the school received. Few schools (other than MIT?) disclose separately the number of students who withdrew, so the exact number of rejections is almost never known.
He applied early action to several schools given the uncertainty of college admissions! At this point he doesn’t have a first choice (no ED) and we’ll be weighing merit amongst a number of other considerations.
We are in the same boat. Based on the games colleges play, we have a strategy that included applying to tons of schools, some EA, thinking of merit and waiting it out.
If you have a kid who would be happy attending many schools and you play the game right, you can have lots of choices. Both students and colleges are optimizing their choices. It’s like any negotiation.
3 Likes
Schools often present data to internal constituents with more information about the source data. For example, applications started is sometimes used by institutions that have unique applications (more common in the secondary school world) as equal to applications even though it’s quite clear that a kid who never submits a full application is not a true, competitive applicant. It’s hard to truly compare as an outsider, but I am also not totally sure why it matters. Fundamentally, most people have a general sense of how selective any school is.
So…could we sort of summarize this whole thread as something along the lines of “My kid didn’t get into X College and I’m mad about it and want to know why he/she didn’t get admitted!” ??
I don’t understand what the big deal is. I don’t see why this all seems to be a controversy or conspiracy.
The post that somebody made a couple hundred posts ago about comparing this to job applicants and interviewing candidates for a job caught my attention. I think it, in some ways, is a fair comparison. At first glance, the candidate might look like he/she would be a good fit for the job, but then you interview them (or in the high school student’s case, interview the HS student or read their essays) and it becomes obvious that you shouldn’t hire that person.
Sometimes, it’s something as simple as “We’ve already admitted a lot of people from Antarctica who want to major in Underwater Basketweaving, so let’s defer Sally’s EA app to RD. What we really need is another Cow Tipping major from Antarctica.”
At the end of the day, you can only attend one school. One school that’s affordable, which has some major options which interest you, and where you can see yourself living for 4 years.
Is the kid’s life going to be over because he/she didn’t get into Northeastern, or CWRU or some super special hard-to-get-into place? No.
It’ll all work out in the long run. There are some really great colleges out there in the US which are not Top 20 schools.
I think that everybody needs to remember that where you attend college is not all of who you are as a person. It’s the start of a journey.
11 Likes
I totally agree with @sbinaz. My D22 has, not a perfect, but good enough stats, 4.0/4.6 GPA, 1550 SAT, and 36 ACT. She’s had 8 AP(5 on 6, 4 on 2) and taking 4 more now. She’s a NMF and AP Scholar with Distinction. Also, she’s had above average ECs and other works with many hours, but not out of this world caliber. She’s applied to most of T-20 schools and LAC. I didn’t think it will be this hard to get into any college but I won’t be surprised if she doesn’t make it to any schools at all, or she’s accepted to some of top colleges. She will be crushed and disappointed if she doesn’t make to her top choices, but I believe that she will be a happy student in a college, wherever that might be, in six months. That’s what all matters to me.
10 Likes
I disagree with that summary. I would summarize the thread as “my kid thought they were going to get admitted right away to college A based on their stats, but they were wrong, and what does that mean for their applications for college B-Z.” It’s a reasonable question to ask. Asking the question doesn’t mean people think top college = happiness. College is a big decision that involves a ton of money and folks are first and foremost trying to understand the process. And then they are likely trying to decide how to spend their money. I started out thinking a top college was right for my kid and now I think the state flagship with money in the pocket to buy a house is probably the best option. This is complicated!
7 Likes
This student was admitted to a T20 school REA, so seems like worrying about a what a deferral means in terms of their application is not necessary. Each school is looking for different things and maybe he has what ND was looking for and not Case.
2 Likes
My assumption is the OP cannot afford ND or has some concerns about ND because otherwise they wouldn’t care about the deferral.
I would say the advice for all applicants is to make sure you apply to a balanced list of schools where you think you could be happy with schools where one is extremely likely (90+% chance) and likely (60+% chance) to be admitted. Then add in some that are possible (25-55%), and then a couple that are unlikely (25% or less chance of admission). There are schools that are good fits for everyone that are going to fall into those buckets.
The issue that arises is when 90% of a senior’s list is made up of applications to colleges where admission is unlikely. Most college applicants are self-selecting; they only apply if they think they have a shot of admission. When highly competitive institution X, Y, or Z is rejecting 90% or more of applicants, the vast majority of the 90% denied admission were qualified to handle the rigor of the institution. When you see an admission rate of 10% or 25%, odds are anywhere from 3:1 to 10:1 against the applicant.
There’s a lot of hubris out there when an applicant knows the vast majority of applicants are qualified, the vast majority of applicants are going to be denied admission, but they think they’re going to be part of the small minority that is accepted. Where it’s even more problematic is when someone considers a school that offers 30 or 40% chance of admission is a sure thing. Odds are still against admission, even if they’re likelier than the most competitive institutions. When a student applies to a balanced list of colleges where they feel it is the right fit and would be happy at any of them (as described above), I don’t think they’re complaining about yield protection.
2 Likes
Yes, I think you are exactly right. My high stats kid applied to a lot of “reach for everyone” schools and then the state flagship. After a few deferrals rolled in, anxiety sky-rocketed. I will encourage my second child to take a different approach now that I better understand the complexities of the process. Still, given how few kids get accepted into the tippy-top schools, it’s a mystery to me why any school would need/want to practice yield protection against high stats kids. Most high stats kids are being rejected anyway so being a backup school for those kids seems like a good position to be in….
3 Likes
best advice I was given from a friend with a daughter one year ahead of mine was to find 2 rolling admissions schools where she would like it and could get an early “Yes” in Sept. There are some great schools that you can apply to and find out early – Pitt, UofAZ are 2 that spring to mind. Early validation, and UofAZ is generous with Merit awards for OOS high stats kids. (not sure about Pitt merit, b/c DD did not apply). Having that took some of the stress away. Then we were advised to build out a list of 3-4 of state flagship EA schools and private EA/RD schools with a range of competitiveness. DD has a few deferrals, but also a bunch of acceptances that she is actually excited about and do not feel like a “back-up” to her. While she has a clear first choice which she is willing to wait for the deferral to be resolved, she knows she has great options. Only 2 RDs to wait for also. . . the learning curve in this is SO steep – DD number 2 will definitely have the benefit of our experience in a few years.
7 Likes
By the way, those are great stats! I wish the best for her.
1 Like
Thank you, I am just hoping that all of her hard work rewards her although I know it will eventually, sooner or later.
3 Likes
I have a tip toppy kid also getting battered by the admissions process and maybe yield protection; leaving him to fight like a feral cat for scraps at impossible to get into top schools. Mid range schools are yield protecting and he’s watching his less qualified peers waltz in while he is being rejected (!) or deferred. I understand universities need to be able to estimate and predict yield but when did that turn into rejecting objectively top applicants? And let’s just start with scores because its one of the few tamper-proof things on these applications. Who knows who wrote their essays, who knows if they really went to states for “world highest IQ competition” or were captain of 4 varsity sports- at our large high school, I can guarantee no one reads these apps, it will absolutely go unchallenged. The colleges have made this into some sort of international talent show with indecipherable criteria while the actual point of college, the academics, are like an after thought. How many companies out there are hiring to people who have fun weekend hobbies to “round out the employee mix” vs. hiring the most qualified person for the role? I honestly cannot believe what I am seeing in college admissions. It’s disheartening.
10 Likes
The thing is, some kids have top stats AND truly ARE the Captain of 3 sports AND really have attended national/international competitions. It’s sad they don’t randomly check these things. The issue we have seen is kids who hang on and do minor jobs claiming they started successful programs. These kids take the credit of others and boost themselves at the expense of the kid who actually did the real thing.
1 Like
Yes ))). Exactly . Thank you .
I hope all this talk of yield protection is overblown and that your tippy top kid has lots of options.
2 Likes
Actually, there were cheating scandals in standardized tests, some made possible by the College Board’s reuse of entire SATs for later test dates. Some of the Singer scandal incidents involved more garden variety cheating, such as getting better test-takers to take the SAT for the client.
2 Likes
If your student is STEM, the following schools may be more “numerical” – i.e., less “holistic” – CMU, GTech, UCBerkeley, UIUC, UTAustin, Cornell, Caltech. If you are tippy top you should just bite the bullet and just apply to the tippy top – Havard, MIT etc … because they don’t do yield protection. If you are tippy top, the publics in the above list may even be considered quasi “safe”.
7 Likes