<p>I have a friend who is not internet savvy so I told her I would post her question here. I know you will all have good advice for her!</p>
<p>Her son is a freshman this year (along with my son) but just came into the school system from a Catholic school. (I don't know that this is relevant, although it may be why his grades are floundering since she did indicated that the reason she moved him was because his former school wasn't that rigorous.)</p>
<p>Anyway, the bottom line is that her son is in all honors courses that are available, and is getting Cs or Bs in all of them. (I think the only B he got was in honors Alegbra II.) He also takes History (non-honors...they don't offer honors) and Spanish. I believe he got a B and a C in those, and he has already dropped down to Spanish two from Spanish three. (He is now getting an A in that class as opposed to the C.)</p>
<p>She wants to take him out of all the honors courses because she feels that his grades will get much better and that he is under too much pressure. He is apparently very bright (or I guess would not have gotten into the honors classes) but is really floundering. </p>
<p>So she asked me...which is better...great grades in non-honors courses or crappy grades in honors courses, I remembered the old answer of "great grades in honors courses" but of course did not share that with her because it wouldn't be helpful. So I'm looking to the experts here to provide some advice. I really don't know what I would do if my son were in this position...I might be inclined to pull him out of some things to boost his confidence level, but then again, I know freshman year is a big adjustment year.</p>
<p>She also asked me if colleges would notice that he is in Spanish two now, and I told her I didn't think so because kids come in from other schools all the time and take whatever level of Spanish based on their previous curriculums....</p>
<p>I think this depends on the individual student. My daughter has always been a hard worker and does whatever it takes to pull the best grades. My middle child is content with lower grades and doesn't seem to work nearly as hard. He's not very good at time management either. He had a similar problem as your son's friend and yes, I think we should have pulled him out of some of the harder classes such as honors physics. With my son, it was just too many hard classes. I would not, however, have pulled him out of all his hard classes. </p>
<p>My suggestion is for your friend to look over each class with her son and decide which classes could be changed depending on teaching quality and interest level. You don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. At our high school it seems the best teachers teach the honors and AP classes and to take the regular level class is to be taught by a not so great teacher.</p>
<p>Most 9th graders I know take Spanish 1 or 2 after a couple of years of middle school Spanish, so I am not surprised that your young friend floundered in Spanish 3 but is doing well in Spanish 2. </p>
<p>You should ask why the student is not doing so well. Is it homework? in class tests? Perhaps his previous school, not being rigorous, did not require as much homework as he has now and he does not (yet) have the study skills to deal with the greater workload. If he is bright, he should try to hang on, learn to deal with homework more efficiently. If he is not understanding the materials, then perhaps he should drop down. Be aware that cp classes are often a huge notch below honors, that many kids in cp classes are not the studious types and that much of what goes on in these classes can be discipline maintenance as opposed to teaching and learning. So before he contemplates this alternative, it might be a good idea to engage a tutor for a while until he catches up. A good thing is that freshmen grades are either discounted altogether or not given as much weight by colleges.</p>
<p>It may be a good idea for your friend to talk to her son's Guidance Counselor. My personal preference would be to have a more balanced mix of honors vs regular classes while a student adjusts to HS. It's sometimes not a big deal to move up a level of difficulty, and would demonstrate increasing work load. But if he continues to struggle, his confidence will suffer and he may end up dropping down a level or so in 10th or 11th grade, which would not look good.</p>
<p>With one kid in college and another who is a junior in HS, I find I'm now more concerned with their happiness, as opposed to whether or not they get into prestigious schools. I'm not suggesting that it's not a good idea to work hard, but that there should be some balance in a kid's life.</p>
<p>The answer depends on the kid. If the kid seems unhappy with the B and C grades, then by all means move him down. </p>
<p>The truth is that if current grade trends keep up, he'll be a good candidate for those schools where his current grades fit in perfectly. And there are a lot of colleges like that.</p>
<p>OTOH, he may just be suffering from adjustment difficulties. After all, many public schools are vastly different from a parochial school, just as HS is different from grade school. So he could stick it out and things might get better with experience.</p>
<p>There's no right answer to these questions. But keep in mind that MOST kids don't do well in difficult courses. That's why high performance is valued when it occurs. It is a differentiator.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that except for those posters who live in Lake Wobegon, most kids are average, some below and some above. They all can't be stars.</p>
<p>I want to say clearly what I think others mean to be saying, too:</p>
<p>This kid is three months into high school. He and his parents should not be basing their decisions on what admissions people at Harvard, or Kenyon, or Nebraska may think some day. What will serve the child best will be if he is enthusiastic about and engaged in his schoolwork, and he is confident and proud of himself. If he loves learning. That's the main thing.</p>
<p>If he achieves those goals, college, etc., will follow (whatever college it is), and he'll get the most out of it (whatever college it is). If he doesn't achieve those goals, college admissions will be far from his biggest problem. I have friends who have spent much of the past 8 months dealing with a major melt-down by one of their kids. I can barely imagine the kind of sick feeling they must get in their stomachs when they remember each little (mis)step they made when they were thinking about getting their kid into top colleges rather than thinking about their kid.</p>
<p>So -- do what's right for the boy, what makes him feel good about himself and good about learning. And damn the torpedos. (Of course, I can't tell from the original post what that is. I don't think there's a clear right choice -- it will be different for different kids.)</p>
<p>Moving the boy to easier classes might not even help, sadly. My first year in high school I was NOT put into "Track 1" classes (Pleistocene equivalent of Honors courses, I guess). The first time it happened, my dad suggested I stay in those classes as I was sure to get better grades. By the end of the first week I was ready to die of boredom. They soon moved me into the right classes for me, and I was happier.</p>
<p>I see several posters up there mention that most kids don't do as well in "harder" classes. I think this STRONGLY depends on the kid. WD Junior's grades depend almost exclusively on his interest level. He's getting a top-A in Calculus BC, which he loves, and a "B" in non-AP senior english, because it's "boring." I don't know about the OP's friend's son, but his parents should know whether he's struggling because he doesn't understand the material, or because he just hasn't figured out the HS system.</p>
<p>The last thing I would agree with is that freshmen sometimes struggle with adapting to high school. My grades weren't great in 9th grade, and I graduated with a 3.7gpa. I know that this would be embarrassingly low on CC today, but it was a top-10% class rating in the stone age. My 2006 UC GPA would have been 4.0 or higher, I think, although I hasten to add that I have not calculated it. A slow freshman year does not doom someone to "failure" as a HS student.</p>
<p>When my son (now a college junior) was in high school, he chose to drop down to the non-honors track in a couple of subjects that did not interest him.</p>
<p>His grades in the "regular" courses turned out to be LOWER than the grades he had received in the honors courses.</p>
<p>"Regular" courses and honors courses may be run differently. In my son's high school, the rules in the regular courses were much stricter than the rules in the honors classes because the regular classes included some students who needed such discipline. My son, who had often been careless about completing homework in his honors courses and who had gotten away with it, found that there were severe academic penalties for incomplete homework in the regular course. He also found that it was sometimes harder to learn in the regular classes because there was more disruption by students.</p>
<p>You say that your friend's son is in some non-honors courses now (history and Spanish). But these are subjects in which no honors course is offered. This is not the same thing as a non-honors course in a subject in which an honors course is offered. The populations of students in the two types of courses differ drastically. A non-honors class in a subject in which an honors course is offered usually contains NO students who are good at the subject -- all the really good students have been skimmed off into the honors class. This can create an atmosphere that your friend's son might not like.</p>
<p>If your friend's son wants to consider moving down to non-honors courses, I would suggest that he do it in one subject only to see how it works out. The change could backfire on him.</p>
<p>I suspect the issue with regards to the boy's poor grades may have nothing to do with rigor (though this may be contributing), but really has to do with the adjustment to the new school. Has your friend talked with his advisor or guidance counserlor or individual teachers about these (I assume) uncharacteristically low grades? I think the first step ought to be to meet with the individual teachers to find out of they think he's having problems with difficulty of the class or, rather, social issues. The teachers should be able to help sort out if dropping to non-Honors classes is the right way to go or not.</p>
<p>Definitely, college applications should not EVEN be entering your friend's mind right now. It's more important to get to the root of the problem and find the right solutions so that the boy is eager and enthusiastic about learning. The good grades will follow.</p>
<p>First, congratulations to your friend to address this problem this early in HS. There is plenty of time to make changes when the grades matter a lot less than in the next three years. </p>
<p>I suspect that the present situation is mostly due to a move to a different environment. It is also possible that the Honors classes at your school were designed to build on a number of elements introduced previously by teachers at the same school. Your friend's son might have learned different concepts or might not be familiar with the quizzes, tests, or homework format and expectations. Is this an area where your son might help? </p>
<p>As far as grades, while the freshmen grades will be discounted, one has to keep an eye on the final GPA. Depending on the aspirations of the family, it's best to avoid digging too deep a hole. Before deciding to switch classes, it might be wise to see how the grade can be "maximized" on the transcript, and that depends on eventual weights placed on honor classes. At some schools it is MUCH easier to obtain a higher GPA via a weighted B in a Honor class than a straight A in a regular classes. However, this is ONLY important if the issue of ranking and GPA will come in play later. </p>
<p>As far as improving the performance, I would highly suggest seeking the help of other (older) students who might offer tutoring help or finding/forming a study group. When seeking help, it is important to find a person with intimate knowledge of the school and the material covered. Nonetheless, I would stay away from his current teachers; as strange as it sounds, teachers are rarely the best tutors for classes in which one of their students has a difficult time. If the connection does not happen during regular classes, chances the same will happen outside the classroom.</p>
<p>It may be that all he needs is a little extra boost to adjust to the new school. Do his teachers offer "extra help" sessions? All of mine did in high school, but it was a private school. He can also look into short-term tutoring if money is available so that a pro can look at his work and the grades he has gotten. He/she should not only be able to tell where he's going wrong but also what he should do to improve. If this hasn't happened already, the boy should talk to his teachers about why he's getting low grades and what he can do about them. The teachers should be able to tell him how he can improve.</p>
<p>Thank you all. I'm printing this out to bring with me when I see her later.</p>
<p>I think she is also worried about the fact that, with poor grades in honors this year, her son may not qualify for honors again next year. I told her to ask the guidance counselor about this as I don't know that answer either (and my own son is not doing fantastically in Honors English himself so I would also like to know). How does it look to take an honors course as a freshman and then not take honors level in the same subject as a sophmore?</p>
<p>I don't think she is overly concerned about colleges at this point...but is really more concerned about how he might feel about his low grades...how it might affect his confidence level. As far as my son helping out, I don't think she wants my son to necessarily know how her son is doing, although they do have a couple of classes together and I would imagine that my son knows already. I think the idea of a study group, though, is great...I just don't see much of that happening at our high school. Is that common?</p>
<p>Study groups are a great way of bouncing ideas off one another or helping one another memorize by quizzing. When my S was taking intro bio, he was one of two high schoolers. Fortunately, the other high schooler lived nearby, so they would get together before tests to go over the materials. It works well if the students are more or less on the same level.</p>
<p>But if the friend is struggling in particular areas, and it looks as if it is because the friend is not as familiar with the curriculum as kids who did not transfer from a different school system, it could be better to ask help from older students. For a while, the more advanced students in our hs ran a drop-in center for help in science (there already was a math center). If, however, the friend really needs help with learning how to read critically--important for English, less so for science or math--, then perhaps an outside tutor would be more helpful. For example, the tutor could ask the friend about the images used in the text, what an episode conveys about the characters, what kind of philosophical questions are raised, etc... Not all students have been taught to read that way. They just read for information, so they know the plot backward and forward, but don't really "get" the point of the story.</p>