<p>You can cut-n-paste these columns into an Excel spreadsheet and plot the data to look for the opportunities…</p>
<p>“Academic Sleepers”. I like it!</p>
<p>Interesting. But I’ve got kids whose SATs will be fine no matter where they go to high school. My dream (now that I’ve encountered the boarding school world and know this is a possibility) is for them to get a far better and more challenging high school education than I did as a top student in a top public high school. If they don’t, it won’t ruin their lives, but they may always feel the lack, as I have. I wouldn’t want to send them to a school where this wouldn’t happen (hence my original question).</p>
<p>I hope the data might help you compile a strategic list of schools w a higher chance for a favorable outcome. </p>
<p>GMT - Any idea why EHS is not included in the list? Maybe they omitted required data?</p>
<p>@twinsmama, when my son came to us last year with the proposal to apply to BS, we asked him to articulate why. He has a great LPS option, and is just as likely to get into an Ivy as valedictorian there as he would be in the middle of his class at Exeter (meaning no more or less likely, in the crap-shoot that it is – but to follow the line of logic, he didn’t need to “get out”). </p>
<p>His answer was “I want to go to school with kids who are excited about school. I want to go to school with kids who want to be there. I want to be with kids like me.” </p>
<p>We just couldn’t argue with that. He has wonderful teachers, and great friends, but he feels like he is just getting through his day, every day. He wants more than that. </p>
<p>That said, we have several other area day schools (FINE schools, sometimes mentioned on this board) that he wasn’t excited about, because he had an idea of the “type of kid” that goes there – he does not mean this as any sort of judgment about intelligence or drive, but just meaning not the “type of kid” he thinks HE is. To beat an ever-beaten horse, I guess it means “fit”? I don’t think it’s tier, or prestige, or rank. My kid visited Andover and knew immediately it wasn’t a fit for him. So I honestly have no idea.</p>
<p>I think your questions about “tier” are really getting at that. What do the stats and other indicators tell you about whether or not the school is full of kids that your kid wants to be surrounded by, and engaged in conversation with? Do they meet him where he is, intellectually and in terms of maturity? Like you, without an extensive knowledge of all the schools out there, I would make certain assumptions about those things based on the only data I could acquire (scores, stats, etc). </p>
<p>@GMTplus7, I apologize - I sounded unappreciative, which I am not. It’s just that what I want to know is in the area where stats don’t reach.</p>
<p>@booklady123, That is exactly what my son said. And we all reacted the same way to Andover. Go figure.</p>
<p>@i70sband, The list doesn’t have schools that don’t publish certain data. I’m particularly interested in Mercersburg, for instance, but they don’t publish many stats.</p>
<p>
Yup, you guessed it-- BSR did not have sufficient data. There were other interesting schools, including EHS, Mercersburg & Webb, that I would have liked to have included. </p>
<p>My thoughts on school “tiers”: people get way too hung up on them. </p>
<p>Definitely, some schools are more selective and more academically challenging. But the kids who go to ANY of the college preparatory schools are a self-selected lot. It takes considerable investment of time, emotion & money to apply to these schools. That process weeds out much of the general population. Unlike for the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, it is a skewed subset of higher achieving kids who take the SSAT. The kids who end up enrolling in the college preparatory schools are “smarter than the average bear”, and their parents place a very high value on education. </p>
<p>I wholeheartedly agree with @GMTplus7! Even “second-tier” prep schools are extremely selective and you shouldn’t dwell on their admittance rates: “ohh I have to go to so-and-so now because its admittance rate was much lower than so-and-so”.</p>
<p>I’ve stated this in other threads, and I will state it again: It’s all about the BEST FIT. Maybe supposed “first-tier” schools will prove to be too academically rigorous for you. It’s more likely that you’ll shine brighter at “second-tier” schools than at “first-tier” schools. Don’t read too much into the admit rates/SAT scores/matriculation etc etc. Just because your second-cousin’s friend’s dad was accepted into Harvard after graduating from Andover does NOT mean going to Andover will guarantee YOU a spot in an Ivy. It’s all about maximizing YOUR potential. </p>
<p>
It’s interesting that Lville & Andover have comparable SAT scores (actually, Lville’s is slightly higher), but Andover’s SSAT score is 10percentile points higher than Lville. It is because Andover draws more prestige-crazed kids who “super-score” the SSAT-- meaning they take it multiple times? I actually know quite a few kids who took the test 4 times (not my kids!). Or does it mean Lville prepares its kids better?</p>
<p>Somewhere (sorry-- don’t remember where) I saw some data showing that BS with a higher percentage of day kids had comparably higher SAT scores (but not SSATs), suggesting that day kids do more SAT prep outside of school (more access). SSATs weren’t affected, since more kids lived at home before HS. So might be interesting to look at the above list along with % day kids vs. boarders. Not saying this is the whole explanation, but I know I read this.</p>
<p>(by the way, I’m not a legacy/student of L’ville or Andover. I’m SPS all the way. Go Big Red!)</p>
<p>@Daykidmom That’s a valid point! I’m pretty sure that that isn’t the main reason, though. I’m pretty sure a majority of these prep schools offer SAT classes. Both day and boarding students can take advantage of these classes, so…</p>
<p>@GMTplus7 I’ve referred to a number of websites, and they all state that Andover’s students have received higher SAT scores than L’ville students in recent years (PM me if you want the sources). Even if L’ville did receive higher scores than Andover, these stats fluctuate. You can never deem one boarding school the alpha of the pack.</p>
<p>I haven’t been in any of the two boarding schools, so I wouldn’t know; however, I doubt that L’ville drills their students more rigorously than Andover- most boarding schools just OFFER opportunities for students to prepare for the SATs… it all depends on whether the students they’ve accepted are (more) motivated or not. Maybe one year, L’ville accepts students that are more zealous than those that Andover accepts, and the ambitious L’ville students seize all the SAT-prep opportunities L’ville offers. Therefore, L’ville ends up with a higher SAT average. However, this does not necessarily mean that Andover does not offer the same SAT-prep opportunities as L’ville- as the students they accepted that one year were just not as driven as the L’ville students.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7 When I suffered through it, there was a set of twins taking the SSAT for the 5th time… </p>
<p>Just to illustrate further how full of tofu (not baloney) “tiers” are, I’d like to say that contrary to @booklady123 and @twinsmama’s kids, I felt quite at home at Andover.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I observe no correlation between % Day students & test performance.
If you plot: </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The data columns below are:
- Day student fraction
- SSAT percentile
- SAT score
- Predicted SAT score as a function of SSAT
- how much higher the predicted SAT is vs actual SAT (= col 3 – col 4)
- school name</p>
<p>The schools are sorted in ascending order of Day student fraction </p>
<p>0.00 89% 2028 2115 -33.2 St. Paul’s School
0.00 85% 1928 2115 -90 St. Andrew’s School,
0.00 80% 1697 2072 -267 Midland School
0.00 53% 1875 2072 202.6 Woodberry Forest
0.06 54% 1810 2072 126.8 Salisbury School
0.07 87% 2013 2061 -26.6 The Hotchkiss School
0.10 84% 2018 2040 10.8 The Thacher School
0.12 90% 2080 2040 8 Groton School
0.12 87% 2000 2018 -39.6 Deerfield Academy
0.14 65% 1800 2018 -2 Holderness School
0.15 83% 2027 2018 30.6 Cate School
0.15 50% 1600 2018 -40 Hoosac School
0.16 80% 1700 2018 -264 Verde Valley School
0.18 83% 1935 2007 -61.4 The Taft School
0.18 81% 1920 2007 -54.8 St. George’s School
0.20 94% 2100 2007 -15.2 Phillips Exeter
0.20 78% 2095 2007 152.6 Linden Hall
0.20 75% 1840 1996 -70 Blair Academy
0.20 60% 1860 1996 112 Asheville School
0.20 54% 1660 1975 -23.2 Proctor Academy
0.20 54% 1548 1964 -135.2 Brewster Academy
0.20 50% 1710 1964 70 Trinity-Pawling
0.21 80% 1885 1964 -79 Hill School
0.23 62% 1786 1953 16.4 Pomfret School
0.24 84% 1940 1942 -67.2 St. Mark’s School
0.24 60% 1705 1921 -43 Avon Old Farms
0.25 85% 2025 1910 7 Choate Rosemary Hall
0.26 94% 2076 1856 -39.2 Phillips Academy
0.26 50% 1550 1834 -90 Vermont Academy
0.30 85% 2090 1834 72 Middlesex School
0.30 62% 1844 1834 74.4 Portsmouth Abbey
0.30 55% 1820 1813 126 Canterbury School
0.30 50% 1738 1802 98 The Gunnery
0.31 70% 1926 1802 70 Westminster School
0.33 84% 2095 1802 87.8 Lawrenceville School
0.33 55% 1910 1802 216 Suffield Academy
0.34 68% 1939 1802 104.6 Cranbrook Schools
0.34 61% 1790 1780 31.2 The Williston Northampton
0.37 63% 1752 1780 -28.4 Colorado Rocky Mountain
0.38 79% 1935 1770 -18.2 The Loomis Chaffee
0.38 66% 1950 1770 137.2 Emma Willard School
0.38 65% 1675 1759 -127 The Ethel Walker
0.38 61% 1827 1759 68.2 Westover School
0.42 68% 1866 1748 31.6 Stevenson School
0.50 90% 2065 1748 -7 Milton Academy
0.50 65% 1732 1726 -70 Lawrence Academy
0.50 65% 1628 1705 -174 Hawai’i Preparatory
0.50 63% 1820 1694 39.6 Lake Forest Academy
0.50 45% 1691 1694 105 Rabun Gap-Nacoochee
0.51 50% 1750 1694 110 Ridley College
0.58 84% 2050 1683 42.8 Concord Academy
0.59 76% 1782 1683 -138.8 Wyoming Seminary Upper
0.60 58% 1885 1683 158.6 Dana Hall School
0.66 68% 1939 1672 104.6 Miss Porter’s School
0.70 85% 2010 1640 -8 Indian Springs
0.76 55% 1790 1640 96 Garrison Forest
0.77 90% 1975 1640 -97 Georgetown Preparatory
0.82 85% 1844 1640 -174 Woodside Priory School
0.83 65% 1840 1640 38 Saint Andrew’s
0.83 50% 1827 1640 187 St. Anne’s-Belfield
0.89 56% 1800 1586 95.2 The Bolles School</p>
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<p>I think @GMTplus7 is having too much fun. ^:)^</p>
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<p>
This is a pure fantasy that helps no one. </p>
<p>Here are some facts:</p>
<p>Class | Andover | L’ville | Difference
2013 | 2079 | 2095 | +16 (L’ville)
2012 | 2037 | 2046 | +9 (L’ville)
2011 | 2067 | 2068 | +1 (L’ville)
2010 | 2054 | 2060 | +6 (L’ville)</p>
<p>Source: andover.edu, lawrenceville.org</p>
<p>Here is another key characteristic to look for in selecting schools: Endowment. For fullpay kids, a fat endowment means more-bang-for-the buck. For FA kids, it means schools that are more financially able to grant generous aid.</p>
<p>I normalized for school size by using Endowment/student. If you plot Endowment/student vs. Admit rate, a logarithmic relationship emerges where in general the fatter the endowment, the lower the admit rate. Some schools, however, have more forgiving admit rates than the fatness of their endowment might suggest. These schools tend to be the ones outside of New England and/or are single-sex schools. </p>
<p>The most breathtaking, extreme outlier is Woodberry Forest. It has an Andover/Deerfield-class endowment and a 50:50 admit rate!!! If I were a boy needing FA, I would be beating down the door of Woodberry!!! For girls schools, also w a 50:50 admit, it’s Miss Porters for the win! For coed schools, Episcopal is a star w a per capita endowment greater than Lville & Choate, and a 40% admit rate! Besides being a super-endowed school and having a more forgiving admit rate, Episcopal has access to Wash D.C. I’d be curious to see how Mercersburg would fare in this analysis w its recent $100M gift.</p>
<p>The data columns below are:
- number of students
- Total endowment $M
- Endowment/student $k
- Admit rate
- Predicted admit rate as a function of Endw/student
- how much the actual admit rate exceeds the predicted admit rate (=col 4 – col 5)
- SSAT percentile
- school name</p>
<p>The schools are sorted in descending order of Endowment/student $k. The greater the number in col 6, the more forgiving the admit rate relative to the size of endowment.</p>
<p>1085 $992 $914 20% 20% 0.00 94% Phillips Exeter
542 $483 $891 15% 20% -0.05 89% St. Paul’s School
371 $330 $889 15% 20% -0.05 90% Groton School
189 $135 $714 17% 21% -0.04 50% Church Farm School
1141 $800 $701 13% 21% -0.08 94% Phillips Academy
408 $271 $664 49% 22% 0.27 53% Woodberry Forest
630 $398 $632 16% 22% -0.06 87% Deerfield Academy
594 $362 $609 18% 23% -0.05 87% The Hotchkiss School
300 $170 $567 26% 24% 0.02 85% St. Andrew’s School,
375 $194 $517 19% 25% -0.06 85% Middlesex School
240 $117 $488 14% 26% -0.12 84% The Thacher School
550 $252 $458 20% 28% -0.08 74% Peddie School
435 $189 $434 40% 28% 0.12 70% Episcopal High
810 $322 $398 38% 30% 0.08 86% Culver Academies
816 $320 $392 20% 30% -0.10 84% Lawrenceville School
865 $318 $368 23% 31% -0.08 85% Choate Rosemary Hall
576 $208 $361 20% 32% -0.12 83% The Taft School
356 $121 $340 35% 33% 0.02 84% St. Mark’s School
364 $120 $330 27% 33% -0.06 81% St. George’s School
311 $100 $322 48% 34% 0.14 68% Miss Porter’s School
680 $212 $312 25% 34% -0.09 90% Milton Academy
391 $112 $286 30% 35% -0.05 65% Berkshire School
265 $72 $272 22% 36% -0.14 83% Cate School
799 $217 $272 38% 36% 0.02 68% Cranbrook Schools
650 $175 $269 27% 36% -0.09 79% The Loomis Chaffee
337 $86 $255 36% 37% -0.01 66% Emma Willard School
506 $128 $253 32% 37% -0.05 80% Hill School
204 $46 $225 50% 39% 0.11 61% Westover School
282 $60 $213 45% 40% 0.05 65% Holderness School
390 $75 $192 28% 41% -0.13 70% Westminster School
374 $71 $190 54% 41% 0.13 67% Westtown School
650 $121 $186 29% 41% -0.12 67% Northfield Mount Hermon
306 $55 $180 66% 42% 0.24 80% The Madeira School
398 $70 $176 23% 42% -0.19 75% The Governor’s Academy
376 $65 $173 25% 42% -0.17 65% Brooks School
450 $77 $171 29% 42% -0.13 75% Blair Academy
90 $14 $156 60% 43% 0.17 80% Midland School
280 $43 $154 33% 43% -0.10 60% Asheville School
370 $55 $149 32% 44% -0.12 84% Concord Academy
405 $60 $148 69% 44% 0.25 45% Rabun Gap-Nacoochee
305 $45 $148 37% 44% -0.07 54% Salisbury School
298 $38 $128 50% 45% 0.05 55% Garrison Forest
451 $55 $122 53% 46% 0.07 76% Wyoming Seminary Upper
340 $41 $121 39% 46% -0.07 62% Portsmouth Abbey
560 $62 $111 39% 46% -0.07 68% Kent School
300 $33 $110 60% 46% 0.14 50% Trinity-Pawling
357 $39 $109 35% 46% -0.11 62% Pomfret School
165 $17 $103 75% 47% 0.28 63% Colorado Rocky Mountain
460 $44 $96 33% 47% -0.14 61% The Williston Northampton
414 $38 $92 29% 48% -0.19 55% Suffield Academy
575 $52 $90 30% 48% -0.18 80% St. Albans School
280 $24 $86 45% 48% -0.03 65% Millbrook School
205 $17 $83 49% 48% 0.01 66% Miss Hall’s School
409 $33 $81 48% 48% 0.00 60% Avon Old Farms
496 $36 $73 43% 49% -0.06 67% Tabor Academy
467 $33 $71 47% 49% -0.02 58% Dana Hall School
355 $24 $68 48% 49% -0.01 54% Proctor Academy
600 $36 $60 42% 50% -0.08 65% Hawai’i Preparatory
430 $25 $58 36% 50% -0.14 63% Lake Forest Academy
258 $15 $58 66% 50% 0.16 65% The Ethel Walker
350 $20 $57 39% 50% -0.11 55% Canterbury School
490 $20 $41 23% 51% -0.28 90% Georgetown Preparatory
102 $4 $39 70% 52% 0.18 80% Verde Valley School
625 $24 $38 75% 52% 0.23 50% Ridley College
280 $10 $36 52% 52% 0.00 85% Indian Springs
732 $25 $34 40% 52% -0.12 68% Stevenson School
400 $13 $33 50% 52% -0.02 65% Lawrence Academy
232 $7 $30 68% 52% 0.16 50% Vermont Academy
873 $25 $29 35% 52% -0.17 50% St. Anne’s-Belfield
358 $9 $25 50% 53% -0.03 54% Brewster Academy
350 $8 $23 56% 53% 0.03 85% Woodside Priory School
575 $13 $23 40% 53% -0.13 65% Saint Andrew’s
121 $2 $17 56% 53% 0.03 50% Hoosac School
154 $2 $13 54% 54% 0.00 66% Stoneleigh-Burnham
1650 $11 $7 50% 54% -0.04 56% The Bolles School</p>
<p>Where do you get all this info @GMTplus7 You’re so amazing!</p>
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