<p>what is the top tier -- I always thought it was the top 100 schools. is it something else? how many tiers are there?</p>
<p>The definition of tiers is flexible. Tiers are usually defined in such a way as to to permit the maximum possible bragging rights.</p>
<p>Well, USNWR has the top 100 and then the next group starting at 101 is the "third tier" so I think that many will use top tier as 1-50 and second as 51-100. Others will designate 1-100 as top tier.</p>
<p>If your at position 55 you are most likely calling yourself top 100 and not second tier!!!!!</p>
<p>It's all "trash talk" - as tsdad notes. On the whole (with lots of exceptions), you can predict "ranking" in broad tiers by the amount the average student and his/her family actually pays, or better, by campus average income (note I used "average", NOT median - that was deliberate, as prestige is tied - thank you Veblen - to the way the leisure class spends its disposable income).</p>
<p>It's sort of like high schools -- all suburban high schools, for example, are "top-rated." At least on CC. :)</p>
<p>LOL, WashDad. And that top-rated designation is a favorite line of realtors, too.</p>
<p>I asked because someone on another forum I read asked the question -- I think they were curious because there are often references to better merit aid at 3rd and 4th tier schools -- and I have no idea that that means.</p>
<p>When people refer to "tiers" are they always referring to USN&WR rankings? and don't those ranking separate out LACs and other schools? so do you have two different top 50 schools?</p>
<p>I know which schools are the Ivies, but after that -- I am lost as far as rankings!</p>
<p>hsmomstef, the terminology used - "Tier", always makes me think the poster means USNWR. And yes. For National schools there are rankings for LAC's and for Doctoral Universities. There are also regional rankings for masters level schools and comprehensive colleges. Lots of Top 50's to choose from .</p>
<p>In the past (maybe 5 years ago?), US News listed the colleges by "tiers" with 50 on the first page, 50 on the next page, etc. -- at the time my son applied to colleges in 2000, you really could go down the LAC list to the 4th tier level. If I recall correctly, the first 50 colleges were ranked, and then each subsequent tier as grouped alphabetically -- so you could distinguish between a college that was #36 or #38 --- but there was no way to tell #65 from #80 -- they would all just be grouped on the same page for their tier. You could resort by various criteria, like SAT scores or faculty-student ratio, but there was no a numerical rank after the 1st page. </p>
<p>Also, in those days all the info was available free on line, no paid subscription required. </p>
<p>Anyway -- the "tier" language comes from that time, because you would have the schools ranked 1-50, then a 2nd tier, 3rd tier, and I think 4th tier. There was nothing more specific for those colleges than the "tier", which I think is the word US News used to title each page. </p>
<p>Anyway, the language has stuck even though the format has changed. </p>
<p>They seem to have changed the way they list things now, with the top 100 un</p>
<p>It's not so different now. USN&WR has 4 separate lists--National Universities, LAC's, Universities--Master's (those that confer very few, if any, doctorates), and Comprehensive Colleges--Bachelor's (colleges that confer more professionally oriented degrees (business, nursing, etc.) than liberal arts degrees). The last two categories are grouped by region. Each category has 4 tiers--the first two are ranked, and the second two are simply arranged alphabetically. There are 100 schools in the top two tiers of both the National Universities and LAC's (i.e. 200 schools total), and an uneven number (several hundred) in the top tiers of the latter two categories. </p>
<p>In my opinion, the tiers for National Universities and LAC's can roughly be assessed as such: 1st Tier schools range from excellent to elite, 2nd Tier from Good to Very Good, and 3rd Tier from fair/solid to Good. In addition, the 1st Tier in the other two categories (especially the top 10-20 schools in each region) can usually be considered solid to pretty good. The top few names in each category are usually pretty recognizable, especially regionally, and will be respected in that region, in my opinion. </p>
<p>Again, this is just my very rough assessment, but I think that that is the gist of the rankings. I've always thought that the Tier system was a better measure, anyway--less focus on exact numerical rankings, more on a general ballpark of selectivity.</p>
<p>If USNWR actually went to a system that just listed tiers, and used alphabetical listings within the tiers, would we see universities channging their names? The schools that begin "University of" might be called something like The A(merican) A(dvanced) A(chievement) University of Pennsylvania, for example.</p>
<p>Bwah! Yes, probably...that reminds me of the Anaheim Angels--I mean, the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim! You're right--no matter what system we went to, there would always be people doing stupid things to game it and kids and parents who would find new and even more ridiculous ways to interpret the results.</p>
<p>what was it from lake woebegon?</p>
<p>oh yeah, ALL our kids here are above average</p>
<p>"Top tier", "second tier", etc., are common figures of speech, regardless of what terminology USNWR uses. I use them commonly, and I didn't even remember that USNWR ever did.</p>
<p>I don't think there's any universal agreement about which schools constitute the "top tier", much less the "third tier", although I suppose there's near-universal agreement that whatever the top tier is, HYPS and MIT are in it. To some extent, I think it varies by context. I used to analyze my kids' school's annual admissions results based on Colleges I Would Be Happy If They Attended, Colleges I Would Be OK With, and Other. Obviously, this was a leeeetle bit subjective. Usually, that would be what I meant by "top tier", etc., without getting specific about it. But sometimes, in conversation (or on CC), "top tier" would mean Colleges I Ought To Be OK With If I Were A Better Person.</p>
<p>Y'all keep talking as if USNWR had eliminated the "Tier" system. They haven't. </p>
<p>Westminster College, U.S. News ranking: Liberal Arts Colleges, third tier <a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_2523_brief.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_2523_brief.php</a></p>
<p>They did incorporate the first two tiers into "Top Colleges" but that was about the time I would have been paying attention (and it's not too hard to divide Top Colleges into 2 halves. LOL.). </p>
<p>One of the phrases commonly used on the student parts of this BB when I arrived was Third Tier Toilet or TTT for short. The reach of USNWR is very broad. It may be in our abbreviations sticky. </p>
<p>The phrase "top tier" to me sounds like a personal ranking system , whereas 1st Tier or 2nd Tier sounds like a reference USNWR. But then again, I think tequila tastes brown so what do I know?</p>
<p>The attempt to eliminate the distinction between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is especially meaningless being that they print the top 50 on one page and 50-100 on the next. </p>
<p>Not to mention that anyone with time to kill could figure out the ranks of the Tier 3 and 4 schools as well--all the data is there, after all. And no, before you ask, even I do not have enough time to kill to have done this!</p>
<p>It does bother me sometimes. I went to Antioch, a 3rd tier school now. I never knew or cared then. It was an incredible place and I think it still is. The US News rankings are not based on what I value. I wanted an intellectually curious and politically active student body.</p>
<p>My son wanted something similar and came up with Grinnell. YOU GO BOY!!! He found his tribe. The rest is all chit-chat. But I notice I do get defensive when so few here even know the name of this GREAT SCHOOL!!</p>
<p>bethie, hopefully you can look at like I would - the people that know, know. The people who don't know don't count anyway. ;) Grinnell is a fine school by any criteria you want to use.</p>
<p>I still find it astonishing that so many people have never heard of Carleton, for crying out loud! In my part of the world, if you're not going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or the University of Kentucky, you're not going anywhere!</p>
<p>Hindoo, I feel your pain. NO ONE knew anything about Carleton (and we're a lot closer here outside of Chicago!) when I was telling people which schools I was considering. We also have the same hierarchy at my HS--if you're not going to HYP, and you're not going to Northwestern or UIUC, you might as well have fallen off the face of the earth. Okay, honorable mention for the University of Chicago, but people will also think that you are really weird and will kind of look down on you for that, too. </p>
<p>I at least get pity respect when I say "Wellesley"--people usually assume that it is at least decent since they know I'm pretty smart :). But they usually haven't heard of it...or think that I said Wesleyan. Which is understandable, and wouldn't be so bad. Except that they think that Wesleyan is Illinois Wesleyan, a good school, but not on Wellesley's or Wesleyan's level. At least SOME people have heard of Wellelsey because of a certain high-profile alum :). </p>
<p>But, we just have to understand that most people haven't done even 10% of the research that the average CC addict has. I was getting annoyed that everyone would immediately say "Oh, where is that?" when I would say that I am going to Wellesley...until one of my friends asked me where Yale was. As in, he asked me what state it was in. Most of my friends have no clue which schools beyond HYP are in the Ivy League...had I gotten off the waitlist at Brown and Columbia, I doubt that that would have impressed anyone any more. I've just decided to adopt the mantra "Bigger and better things. Bigger and Better things. Bigger and..."</p>
<p>Also, bethie, Grinnell is certainly high-regarded by those in the know (as is Carleton, and Wellesley, and so on and so forth). My father runs in the Midwest LAC circuit doing Science Buildings, and he loved Grinnell and tried to get me to apply (WAY too isolated for me!). Once I got into Carleton and why trying to decide whether or not to attend, he found out that many of the professors/board members/etc. at the colleges he was doing jobs for (Beloit and St. Olaf, namely) were Carleton grads. He has always maintained that had he been better informed back when he was applying to college, he might have made very different decisions.</p>