<p>Med schools do not prefer one course of study over another. They really only ask you take Gen Chem, Bio, Organic Chem, and Physics. These are the courses that you must do your absolute best in. Whether you do ALPP, SCPP, or Bio you will end up taking these courses. If you go down the Bio major route you will take the Biology major’s version of Introductory Biology freshman year. Everyone else generally takes Bio their sophomore year. Gen chem is always taken freshman year, organic chem sophomore year, and physics either sophomore or junior year.</p>
<p>SCPP offers plenty of flexibility. You will likely be able to pursue the SCPP major and an additional major and minor if you so choose. You will also have plenty of time for MCAT prep and will have options for study abroad. Bio majors do not have the most flexible of schedules and may only be able to pursue a minor. I know some Bio students who studied abroad and had a lot of fun.</p>
<p>Either path you choose, med schools look at the overall rigor of your schedule. They want to see that you are challenging yourself and striving to better yourself both in the academic and social realm. Good luck.</p>
<p>Bio majors can definitely pursue an additional major. Biochem has more specific requirements than bio and I’m getting a dual degree (which requires even more credits than a second major). As long as you plan it out, it’s possible. Also, I think SCPP majors can probably study abroad more easily than biology majors because they have fewer requirements.</p>
<p>And while medical schools SAY they don’t prefer one major over another, the statistics show that some majors tend to do better than others. For instance, biochemistry majors have a higher than average acceptance rate, while biology majors have a lower than average one. You can find a more detailed list in a lot of med school prep books.</p>
<p>@ sweetheart89- As far as weeding out goes, it does happen. I don’t think it’s intentional on ND’s part, its just the nature of the material. When you teach a quality course on difficult material, some people won’t be able to handle it. However, by the time you get past gen chem/bio and orgo, most of those people have dropped out and average grades in higher level courses will typically be higher than those in intro classes. It isn’t as if you will fail just because too many of your classmates are smart. If you did well in your intro classes at your current school, you will most likely be fine. However, the switch to ND is a shock to some people. I do have one transfer friend who was a pre-med pulling all A’s at Loyola who had to drop out of pre-med at ND because she nearly failed a couple required classes. But it really comes down to how much you think you can handle.</p>
<p>Hmm, maybe SCPP is a good idea then. I was also considering Biochem (I like chemistry and biology?) … Is it super difficult? also, what is a dual degree? Thanks for answering my probably obvious questions! I am not very knowledgeable about college.</p>
<p>Also, I was thinking today about how important it is for med school to have worked with hospitals and have done service? I was thinking of volunteering at my local hospital this summer. I am not a very outgoing person - what kind of opportunities should I be looking for while at ND to enhance my chances of med school and to learn more about the profession? [if that makes sense]</p>
<p>A dual degree is essentially a program in which you try to achieve two bachelors degrees. Say, for example, a Bachelors of Science and a Bachelors of Arts. They are hard to earn mainly because you have to satisfy the requirements of both colleges from which you are trying to earn the degree. And I do not mean major specific requirements alone, I also mean every other requirement the colleges (of Science and Arts and Letters) asks you to take. A list of these requirements can probably be found at the colleges websites. If you have lots of AP credit and are willing to complete some course work over the summer, a dual degree can definitely be completed in four years. If not, five years is more realistic.</p>
<p>Service work is extremely important for med school applicants. If you have time this summer, it would probably be a good idea to start volunteering (in the ER, radiology, rehab, etc.) asap. It is also important to continue this service throughout the year or during the summers or breaks to show continuity and dedication. A bit of shadowing is also important. The more unique experiences you have the better. You will be able to write about them on your applications and explain how they have helped you in your quest to become a doctor.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information, it’s very helpful.
I am going to go with SCPP or Chem or Biochem I think. I would just do SCPP but am afraid if I opt out of the medicine idea that I would be stuck with no where to go.</p>
<p>I will try to get involved in something this summer. I can definitely do some volunteer work at the hospital. I am just afraid, during my 4 years at college, that I will not be able to find the opportunities to aid my quest to be a doctor.</p>
<p>Your concerns about SCPP are very reasonable. The nice thing about SCPP, though, is that you take a wide breadth of classes and could change majors should you choose probably during your sophomore year. It really depends upon what you want to change into but SCPP does a good job of getting your feet in various areas of study. Also, there are post bac options available after undergrad that are very welcoming to SCPP type students. This could line you up for graduate work in some other field should you choose.</p>
<p>There are options for SCPP majors who decide not to go to medical school, but they will most likely be more limited unless you use your schedule flexibility to take a grad school preparatory curriculum. In which case, you may as well just get the degree that fits those courses. Also, switching from SCPP into biochem or one of the other sciences would probably be a bit of a shock. Usually people go the other way around. And yes, biochemistry/chemistry are difficult majors, but they come with a great support system, are more collaborative, and have much less competition over grades.</p>
<p>Volunteer or shadowing experience is very important to your medical school application. I would recommend looking into volunteer opportunities early. There are two hospitals near ND with volunteer programs: St. Joseph’s and Memorial. St. Joe’s requires 4 hours per week, while Memorial only requires 3. There is a lot of competition to get spots volunteering in pediatrics, but there are other places to volunteer as well. I have volunteered in the ER at Memorial and it has been a good experience. You should be able to get their contact info online or from the Center for Social Concerns. For shadowing, you should get e-mails about opportunities to shadow over breaks or to apply for the Medical Explorers program (in your junior year) in which you shadow a local doctor throughout the course of the year and earn one credit.</p>
<p>Hey Shellzie,
I can only speak from my own experience (I graduated in 2007), but I didn’t know many biochem majors who stuck with the major until graduation. Of those who did, many had pretty low GPAs and were advised not to apply to medical school. You’re right that some majors fare better in medical school admissions than others. For instance, in my graduating class 97% of ALPP anthro majors got into medical school. I was ALPP anthro and I was very successful in the process. Many would argue that the reason that biochem majors fare so well in the process is that those who survive the program are among the most scientifically talented applicants. I would be willing to bet money that these students also do much better on the MCAT than the average premed. </p>
<p>I do agree that if you aren’t sure that you want to go to medical school, majoring in premed (ALPP, SCPP) might not be the best idea. These majors are designed to provide students with the prerequisites for medical school, and aren’t really geared toward preparing science PhD students. If you want to go to medical school, however, I find that these are wonderful programs that give you the flexibility to pursue diverse interests while still taking those courses necessary to apply.</p>
<p>Hey sweetheart,
I’m not sure that jumping ship this late in the game will be in your best interest. Stay at SLU and continue to do well. Are you interested in anything else about ND besides the name recognition? Because if not, it might not be worth it.</p>
<p>It is true that many biochem majors have lower GPAs and that most people don’t make it through (most people drop out in the first 3 semesters). But for those that do, I believe it’s worth it. And though most of us have lower GPAs than your average SCPP, I don’t know of anyone who was advised not to apply to medical school this year (and I know all the biochem majors). A professor also told me a couple years back that the acceptance rate for ND chem/biochem majors who do apply to medical school was close to 100%. Also, there have been some recent changes in the biochem program that have enabled GPAs to be higher. It used to be that the pchem and biochem courses that are taken junior year were not curved as nicely and so the two essentially inevitable C’s on your transcript doomed you to medical school rejection. However, that is no longer the case. The courses are still tough, but the grading is more reasonable. For instance, our class average on the pchem final was 49%, but the average grade still ended up being a B/B+. (that class was a bit more extreme than others…)</p>
<p>I wouldn’t recommend biochem as a major to someone who doesn’t like science. But for someone who loves it and who wants the strongest scientific preparation they can get, I think it’s the best route. As for MCAT scores, I have heard from several people that the highest MCAT scores are (in descending order): physics in medicine, biochem/chem, bio, SCPP, ALPP. But I don’t know if that is true or not.</p>
<p>It really all comes down to what the best fit for you is. If you know for sure that you want to go to medical school and want more flexibility during undergrad, go with SCPP. If your passion lies in the liberal arts, go with ALPP. But if you are interested in science and aren’t sure you want to go to medical school, major in biology, biochemistry, chemistry, or physics in medicine. Whatever interests you the most.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks guys, this is very helpful, and makes me feel more confident about the choices I am making.
I am so happy there are many different options at ND to keep med school an option for me.</p>
<p>I was thinking of scheduling my classes to make it possible for me to declare ~either~ chem/biochem or SCPP… but looking at my scheduling sheet, it seems they do not overlap in the courses they require. It’s nice that chem/biochem seem to be together though, because I would choose one of those or SCPP. Tough decision!</p>
<p>Although it doesn’t look like there is a lot of overlap between those majors, there actually is- especially freshman/sophomore year. A lot of classes count towards the same requirements. For instance, an SCPP major must take biology, but they can take either the premed biology (which chem majors also take) or the bio/biochem major biology course to fulfill the requirement. Also, most of the biochem courses are shared with the chemistry, biology, or premed majors.</p>
<p>If I were you (I was in pretty much the same situation 3 years ago), I would go with biochem or chem. If there is any chance that you want to go with either of these, it is much better to decide to do so early on so that you will take the intro courses that will best prepare you for the upper level courses. People who transfer into biochem from other majors tend to have some difficulty catching up (though it is not impossible).</p>
<p>It is pretty easy to switch between them during freshman year since your “major” is really just an intended major at that point. And if you want to change it after that point, it isn’t a problem as long as you have enough of the requirements to be on track for graduation.</p>
<p>If you need any more info about the requirements for any of these majors or need advice on scheduling for freshman year, feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Leparfait, no matter your decision and course of study your first year, their is plenty of flexibility and overlap within the science majors. I totally echo shellzie’s point. I would caution you on one important point though. This is just something that you might want to consider.</p>
<p>If you begin as a Bio major (and I believe also as a BioChem major) you must take Biology your freshman year. This is in addition to say Calculus and Gen Chem/Orgo. As you can see, this year alone is heavily science waited. It happens to contain two (or three if you count orgo) of the four courses that med schools place premiums on. Freshman year is also a bit of a transition year so you should consider this as well. The last thing you want to do is overwhelm yourself. On the same token, you also do not want to intellectually deprive yourself of the material that you wish to study. Let your heart decide your course but be aware that in the grand scheme of things it isn’t too large a decision at this stage of the game. When you declare your major at the end of freshman year it really becomes important.</p>
<p>Using the information you guys have given me, I have at least decided to go with Chemistry or Biochem. I am not sure how to decide which major I would like better - chem or biochem. I liked chemistry in high school and thus considered a chem major but it would be neat to combine chem with biology =) However, the only difference I notice between the two is whether I take physics or biology in addition to my chem class.
I don’t know what I got on the AP Calc exam yet, but if I get a 5, it looks like I would get out of Calc I. I am weary of using AP credit to skip classes though…</p>
<p>Do you guys know if people who go premed, chem or biochem have the opportunity to study abroad? It looks like I will not even have the chance to take a language because of the phil/theo requirement so I am not sure I will be able to study abroad, esp. if I take the MCAT?</p>
<p>Irish45221, you make a good point about the biochem major and the med school reqs. I feel I might be overwhelmed with those classes and would be afraid of not doing well as I transition! =/</p>
<p>Don’t worry about using AP credit for things like Calculus. Most med schools do not require Calculus so it is really to your advantage to apply it if you can. And try not to worry too much about the shock of the transition. You know yourself better than anyone so meditate on your weaknesses and strengths and base your decisions from that.</p>
<p>Chemistry and biochemistry majors take most of the same classes (although sometimes in a different order) until senior year, when chem majors take advanced inorganic chemistry and biochem majors take molecular biology. I wouldn’t worry too much about which major you choose since it would be pretty easy to switch between the two. If you are considering medical school though, biochemistry is good since you take most of the SCPP requirements too. And some of the courses you take, like cell bio and genetics, are helpful for the MCAT. However, chemistry gives you a bit more schedule flexibility.</p>
<p>People in either chem or biochem can study abroad, usually in Ireland in the fall of their junior year. However, if you take to your adviser early on and schedule things right, you can go elsewhere (this is not as common). And there is always the option of studying abroad over the summer. And don’t worry about language courses. You will have the opportunity to take any required classes spring semester, over the summer, or sophomore year before you would study abroad.</p>
<p>I’m constantly caught between either wanting to become a pharmacist or major in accounting/finance. I asked on these boards earlier how getting classes done for pharmacy could happen since ND doesn’t offer it and they suggested SCPP. Is it actually possible to pursue SCPP and have a major in accounting/finance? Or would it be too difficult/impossible?</p>
<p>It is definitely possible to pursue a second major with SCPP. You may need some AP credit and a summer at ND to get it done comfortably, but it can definitely be done. I am not too sure about accounting/finance specifically but you probably could finish it. The sooner you start aiming for your second major the easier it will become for you in the long run.</p>
<p>As a warning: if you want to major in finance, or any College of Business major, you must have your primary major be the business major and be enrolled in the College of Business. They will allow you to double major, but make sure that you declare finance as your intended major freshman year. Another option is getting a dual degree, but that will most likely take an extra semester/year. And, Irish is right, start to plan EARLY.</p>
<p>As a premed, would it be hard to balance your schedule if you get a campus job and work for 4-6 hours a week? I’m worried about having enough time for volunteering/studying/socializing/extracurricular activities.</p>
<p>Also, how early do I need to contact a hospital to volunteer there? Is it to early to contact them this week? I left a message with someone on Sunday and they have yet to call me back.</p>
Thanks for answering my probably obvious questions! I am not very knowledgeable about college.</p>