Questions For BigRedMed

[california_love8]

<p>

1: there are only 125 med schools in the us. All do a great job preparing their students for medical practice. None are crummy.</p>

<p>2: you do realize that you have to undergrad first, right? Undergrad school factors very little into med school admisions. You just need to do well in college with grades, the MCAT, on-campus involvement, research, and volunteering and then apply to schools where you will be competitive. There are no safeties (to use a CC term) in med school admisions. But there are reaches and matches. If you do well while an undergrad, and apply to schools that fit your stats, you will have a good chance to be accepted. </p>

<p>3: Don’t read too much in to those acceptance numbers. They don’t take into account things like state residency. Your Arizona example is a great choice b/c they only accept applications from AZ residents or people with significant AZ ties, which artificially limits the number of people who apply. State schools often give huge advantages to in state students, and everyone is aware of that fact so people are reluctant to apply to state schools of which they aren’t a resident. That fact alone raises the number of applicants to private medical schools. Other places like George Washington and Tufts get an abnormally high # of applications b/c of their locations and the fact that they often have rather low stats for their entering class (Tufts had an average entering GPA of 3.48 when I applied there 2 years ago) and remember what I said about applying to places where you’ll be competitive - people think they have a better shot of making it in there so they apply. Just b/c GW had only about 1% of it’s applicants actually earn and take a spot in their school doesn’t mean that they are a better school than say Iowa.</p>

<p>4: There are plenty of people who are not geniuses in medical school. In fact I’d say most are simply above average people who work hard.</p>

<p>5: Like with any USNWR rankings they need to be taken with a grain of salt and an understanding of how they arrive at those rankings. For Primary Care, there is a lot of emphasis on how many students the schools place into PC residency programs (Med, peds, OB/GYN, Family). The research rankings are dependent on how much money they earn in grants.
I’m of the opinion that the PC rankings are a rough approximation of how good the school is at producing quality doctors across the board, but it is by no means absolutely true, and certainly should not be taken as an absolute. The research rankings are much more helpful if you are actually thinking of doing research in the future.</p>

<h2>

</h2>

<p>In Response to:</p>

<li><p>I (yes I am UW husky also) didnt mean that they’re crummy faculty-wise, but I mean that they arent the best overall in prestige. And prestige I’ve heard is a HUGE factor when applying for rescidency. Also, if you dont go to Johns Hopkins for med, and go to a lowly school like arizona, then, from I’ve heard, you wont get into a naturally competitive rescidency such as Surgery, which I really really really want to do. (btw, are you sure that its not that hard, or are so many people turned off by the cutting-open of bodies that it weeds out many candidates) So I meant crummy in that sense. Correct me if I’m wrong on any of this, but explain why people I’ve heard from are wrong (since they are legit med students themselves)</p></li>
<li><p>So from you’re logic (I’m not being sarcastic even if it sounds like I am) are you saying it might be better for me to consider going to a state school like UC-Boulder than somewhere like stanford because its easier to get good grades than a ultra-competitive school like that? And if you have time can I see the article that proves your assertion that Arizona Med School only accepts people from Arizona? Cuz then it might also be wise for me to look at UA since that would offer a monumental advantage in applying to med school. But again I’m worried that because UA isn’t even top 50 in USNR that I wont be able to land a surgery rescidency, so what would u recommend? And btw, I’m not so sure about your assertion that state schools offer advantages to its UGs. A friend of my family’s son was on the deans list multiple times at UW, and did fine on the MCATs, and was in the end wait-listed and then accepted. This doesn’t inspire much confidence in how much credit state schools give to its residents.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>And final Q:
Do u know anything about Umich and MichSU and how much state residence factors into getting into one of those schools since both are very good?</p>

[norcalguy]

<ol>
<li><p>USMLE scores are more important than the prestige of med schools in terms of residency placement. </p></li>
<li><p>His point is that there is no need to go to a top college simply because it is highly ranked. Go to the school that you will fit in the best. If that's a Harvard or Stanford then fine. Top schools have excellent med school acceptance rates (80%+ usually) despite being filled with competitive, bright students.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>State residency matters to public med schools and to some private med schools. Just attending a school in a state does not fulfill state residency requirements. IE if your home is in CO but you attend UA, you would not be considered a resident of Arizona.</p>

[Bigredmed]

<p>Norcal guy did an excellent job covering the main points. </p>

<p>My information on the UA residency requirements comes from the Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR) book published yearly by the AAMC</p>

<p>From the pages on the UofA COM in Tuscon under the section labled "Requirements for Entrance" page 116 of the 2005-2006 edition.

[quote]
All applicants must be residents of Arizona or WICHE-Certified and funded residents of Montana, or Wyoming.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The key is that you must prove residency to get the advantage at most state medical schools. </p>

<p>As for the top school arguements, it is entirely impossible to separate out exactly how much influence going to a top school exerts on medical school admissions, mainly b/c the students who end up at Stanford or the Ivies are driven, intelligent individuals who tend to do well in classes (GPA) and standarized tests (MCAT). There is some truth if you are on the margin of being accepted to such schools that going to an "easier" (and I use the quotes delibriately as air quotes) undergrad school may improve your chances of getting into medical school - but there is more to it than just grades. I'm a firm believer in fit as the single most important factor in choosing an undergrad institution. Some people do well surrounded by equals, others need to be a big fish in a small pond. The point is that you need to find the school that meets your physical, social and academic needs. You need to find the school where you can accomplish the absolute greatest total amount possible during your 4-5 years.</p>

<p>All that said: Medical school admissions are extremely ****ed up and a lot of times don't make sense. I have plenty of friends who didn't get in their first try who had great applications. I know of people who got into high name schools like Iowa but didnt' get accepted at their in-state schools (where you would think they have an advantage). I also know of people who got in with 3.1 GPA and a 22 on the MCAT b/c of who they knew. </p>

<p>As for the prestige of UW, I think you are very mistaken at the reputation that school has. I've only ever heard about great things from UW. Norcal is right though, that the prestige of a medical school is very minimal. The thing is that, again going back to the fact that there are only 125, is that you are looking at relative prestige vs absolute. If Hopkins is a 100 on some made up prestige scale, then Arizona is an 80. On that scale the absolute least prestigious school would be a 65. Compared to undergrad with Harvard or yale as a 100, the least prestigious school would be a -10000. Compared to law schools the tops would be 100 and tier 4 schools would be -500. And in medicine everything can be made up in board scores. The thing about residency is that it's actually more like a job interview than admissions to school. The interview makes up a huge part, where you went to school only keeps you from getting in the door. They are looking at whether they can work with you for 3-7 years. </p>

<p>Surgery as a residency path is not that highly sought after for many people b/c the call schedule is brutal. Even with the 80 hour resident limit restrictions, the lifestyle of a surgery resident sucks (It's my #1 reason why I'm looking more towards a Peds residency followed by fellowship). It's not the blood and gore b/c most med students don't have a problem with that. It's the lifestyle. It's also not as competitive as the other residencies you listed b/c there are a lot of programs. Every medical school and it's associated medical center has a surgery program. Again the absolute top residency programs in any given specialty will be competitive. But for example, only 5.4 % of students in 2002 who ranked ONLY general surgery programs were left unmatched vs. (All 2002 data from the book The Ultimate Guide to Choosing a Medical Specialty) 16.1% for those ranking only derm, 6.5% for those only ranking Emergency Med, 15% for neurosurgery, 22% for only ophthamalogy, 14.9% for only Ortho, 15% for only ENT/Head-neck Surgery, 11.1% for Radiology and 23.5% for those only applying to Plastics. Again these are stats for people who ranked in the match only programs in those specialties. It's not a perfect stat to judge the difficulty in obtaining a residency in a certain field, but it's the best I can do.</p>

<p>As for why your friends are wrong, the only thing I can guess is that they just haven't looked into it that much. I have found that most people know exactly how to be a pre-med and what's required, but even among current med students, the whole process of the Match and boards is largely unknown. Part of it likely has to do with the separation that occurrs between the third and fourth year students and the first and second year student due to the sudden change from classroom learner to clerkships. It has taken reading on my own to figure out what I know about applying to residency.</p>

<p>I'm sorry but I don't know much about Michigan. From the MSAR, MSU says that about 80% of their class will be MI residents.</p>

[Bigredmed]

<p>By the by, WICHE stands for Western Interstate Commission of Higher Education.</p>

<p>And about your family friend...just to follow up on the absurdity of medical school admissions a small reminder that grades and MCAT aren't the only things medical schools look at. I know several people who have everything they need as far as grades, involvement, research, volunteering and MCAT, and then blew their interview. There are any number of reasons why your family friend wasn't accepted.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>Possible scenarios include:</p>

<p>1.) Um, dude, UW med school is one of the most prestigious/selective in the country.</p>

<p>2.) Messed up the application process in any of a number of ways: Blew his interview. Blew his essays. Had a bad letter of recommendation. Applied late.</p>

<p>3.) What you consider a "decent" MCAT score might not actually be all that good - you have to consider that only 1/4 of MCAT test takers will ever end up in med school, so the 80th percentile is really actually the 20th percentile. (This math is NOT perfect, which I know, but you get the idea.)</p>

<p>4.) Dean's list, at least at my school, is not particularly difficult to get, especially if you're taking easy classes.</p>

<p>5.) Reseach and EC's are a big deal. A BIG deal.</p>

<p>6.) Or maybe he was too good, and the med school "yield-protected" him.</p>