<p>One of my D's friends just got into Cap 21 ED and insists that one reason she got in is that she ONLY said she would take Cap 21, whereas others who said they would take Cap and other studios got their other choices. Any truth to this?</p>
<p>NO, that is not the reason. In fact, Arthur Bartow, Artistic Director for Tisch Drama, discussed that on this forum a while back if you do a search. </p>
<p>If a student will only be willing to take CAP21 and no other studio, and particularly if it is the ED round, they need to state they will only accept CAP21. If the school doesn't wish to accept that student for CAP21, the school will reject that student. Saying "I'll only take CAP21" does NOT increase one's odds of getting CAP21. It means they will get CAP21 if the school wants to take them into CAP21 or if not, they'll be rejected. A student has the option at the audition of saying, "My first choice studio is CAP21 for X, Y, and Z reasons, but my second choice is _____Studio for X, Y, and Z reason." In that case, in the SAME way as with the kid who says, "I'll only take CAP", the student is considered for CAP. But if the school doesn't want to take the student into CAP, rather than rejecting the student, IF they really want that student but have no place for them in CAP or feel another studio is a more appropriate placement....the student can be accepted into another studio, rather than rejected. However, many are still rejected anyway. But if the student cannot be placed into CAP, but the school wants to accept them into Tisch, they can still be accepted into a different studio. In other words, the student has more "chances" of being accepted by being willing to take a second choice studio, compared to the student who is ONLY vying for CAP21 or nothing. Both are considered equally for CAP. Same chances. Same odds of getting into CAP. The first kid, if not let into CAP, is just let go. The second kid who is not let into CAP, has another option to be accepted into a studio, if Tisch wants them.</p>
<p>However, for an ED applicant, if they truly are not willing to accept another studio, it is better to say "only CAP21"...NOT because it will give them a better chance at CAP...IT WILL NOT...but because if they are not let into CAP, they won't be COMMITTED to enroll into a studio they don't want to take (since ED is a binding agreement) and just will be rejected. </p>
<p>For example, my kid wanted CAP21. IF she had applied ED, she would have said "CAP only" because she wasn't so sure she wanted to go there for acting and she would have been bound if accepted to a second choice studio. However, she applied RD and so she did give a second and third choice studio because she may have been willing to consider other studios depending on where else she got in RD and so she much preferred CAP21 and explained why in her audition, but if Tisch didn't accept her into CAP, she'd like to have been considered for acceptance in the other studios and then weigh all the options she was given from schools. She ended up getting into CAP21 in RD. Again, saying "CAP only" doesn't increase your chances of being put into CAP whatsoever. It only means if you don't get into CAP, you are rejected. Giving CAP as a first choice, gives you as much consideration as anyone applying "CAP only," but just like the CAP only people, they may not get in and if that is the case, they MAY be someone Tisch still will accept into another studio placement, rather than reject, OR they may be rejected all together. </p>
<p>I hope that is clear. I give you my D's example as someone who made a case for CAP21 as her first choice (and her training and background correlated), but also explained why Playwrights was her second choice and Adler her third. She still got CAP21. Many who give second and third choices still get CAP21. Some get into their second choice studio rather than rejected all together, as there are not that many slots in CAP21 considering the numbers who want it. To some kids, this is preferable to a rejection which they would have gotten for sure if they had said "CAP only", and Tisch had no slot for them in CAP. So, it isn't true that if you give a second or third choice studio, you'll get that instead of CAP21. Many get into CAP21 who were willing to be considered for second choices studios as well. What IS true, is if you say "only CAP21" and they don't have a slot in CAP21 that they are willing to give you but would like to accept you to Tisch for acting, you WON't be considered and will merely be rejected. If you give a second choice, you may be rejected all together, but they may wish to accept you into your second choice when they couldn't give you your first choice, thus resulting in an acceptance. There are many musically trained students in studios other than CAP21. Some are happy to take those studios even if their first choice was CAP21, because they wish to study at Tisch. For those students, this second option just increased their chances of an acceptance, but didn't decrease their chances of getting CAP21.</p>
<p>In the scenario of the example you gave in your post, the kids who gave a second choice studio who got the second choice....had they not given a second choice, they'd now be rejected because they didn't get into CAP21 and if they had said "CAP only", that would be the end of that. You are either accepted to CAP or you're not. If you give a second choice, then there is something else you CAN be considered for AFTER you are not given CAP, rather than be rejected out right.</p>
<p>I found the old post by Arthur Bartow for you, in which he refers in part, to this issue you brought up. Here is a copy:</p>
<p>
[quote]
11-04-2005, 09:12 AM #36
Arthur Bartow
College Rep</p>
<p>Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New York University
Threads:
Posts: 5
New York University
I'd like to reply to several comments that have been made about Drama at NYU that contain misconceptions.</p>
<p>Regarding our musical theatre program: This is an acting program that trains singers and dancers. Being a belter is not helpful if your head voice is not also developed. In fact, belting can be destructive to the voice without developing the head voice. You must be equally strong as an actor to any musical theatre skills you may possess. We have 1,000 applicants to our musical theatre program annually. We select 75 in order to make a class of 64. </p>
<p>Regarding taking a second choice studio for students who are not selected to the musical theatre program. With the huge number of applicants we have, not all the talented people who audition can be accepted into that studio. We ask our applicants to musical theatre if they might be interested in a second choice studio if they are not chosen for musical theatre. There is no obligation to have a second choice and it has no bearing on whether or not an applicant is accepted into musical theatre. If fact, we urge our applicants please not to say they have a second choice if they cannot be happy studying in a non-musical studio. Once the determination has been made about the musical theatre class for these applicants, we then examine if these students have the "chops" to do well in a non-musical acting studio. If we feel that they do, they are invited to take their second choice. If a student is rejected for the program, he/she is not invited to the second choice. We maintain the quality of all our studios equally. We currently accept 15% to 17% from the 2,500 to 3,000 applicants we have for all studios. Students who accept a non-musical studio do not have the opportunity to move to musical theatre once they are in the program until they have completed two years in the non-musical studio.</p>
<p>Sincerely,
Arthur Bartow
Artistic Director
Tisch Drama
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have a question for arts reps and current Tisch students and parents.</p>
<p>I'm a single parent currently struggling (along with my equally struggling daughter) to find a way to help her attend Tisch. We haven't sent anything back yet, frankly, because we're scared.</p>
<p>I think with using my and her current resources I might be able to get her through the first two years.</p>
<p>She'll have to take out loans, do work study, work a few jobs in the summer, I may take out loans (but I'm trying not to initially, since it will only get worse and I'm also not sure if I'd be able to pay them monthly.) </p>
<p>Two questions:</p>
<p>1) Is it at all even POSSIBLE for a student to succeed in a studio program when she'll be stressed with having to work, keep up grades to keep up a financial aid award, potentially living in low cost dorm housing and perhaps ending up in a cramped room with no A/C, having to resist all the temptations of the wealthier kids around her - will the pressure be too much? </p>
<p>I'd love to hear from someone who's been through this experience.</p>
<p>2) Is it worth starting in the program if you have no idea if you'll be able to finish? I'm leaning toward saying yes, but again, the fear/uncertainty/doubt has taken over. It's like dangling a carrot in front of your kid's nose, only to have to take it away later and leave her hungry.</p>
<p>Thanks for any advice you can provide.</p>
<p>I'm just a parent. I can't tell you if it is worth it or if it is doable. I think you might be able to find a way to make it work. I don't know your D's other college options. Already, you sound in better shape then we are if you have current resources to get your D through two years. That is not the case for us. We have Parent Plus loans and will have those all four years. Examine the monthly payments of Parent Plus loans that you would have to incur if you take any for two years (paid out over ten). </p>
<p>Your D can work in summers and save that money up. Also look for outside scholarships, often local ones....they can add up, even if not high dollar amounts. </p>
<p>I think it is difficult to handle a regular job during the school year. I suppose some manage to do it. But the hours for a BFA program are MUCH longer than for regular college students. The classroom hours alone take up most of their daytime hours. Usually the evenings are taken up by rehearsals, or crew assignments and the like, as well as time on weekends. It depends how much your D takes on in that regard. My D has something every night and weekend and so has very very little "free" time, and that is not even counting homework and class prep. However, my D does work for pay during the school year. We turned down work study because she doesn't have the time to commit weekly to a regular job. But she sometimes gets paid to do certain things and these things are more flexible and she can work as much or as little as she wants. This week she was paid to accompany on piano for a show at another studio, a very nice sum. A professor has hired her to transcribe musical scores she has written and my D is paid well for it but fits it in when she has time. My D has had a job the past two years with a musical theater program for youth. She could have regularly taught classes but it was too hard to commit to that with her schedule. But she gets hired and accepts when she can (three jobs over the past 8 days) to perform in Broadway themed scripted birthday parties. She is also paid by students in the program when she records their accompaniment tapes for their vocal performance classes. So, if your D has some skills or talents that she can get paid for and do it in a more flexible way, that might be easier than a regular job. Even babysitting is something that can be done where she does it when she can. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean about keeping up grades for her financial aid. My D gets a yearly scholarship and I don't think the standards to keep it are anything to worry about...the bar to keep it is not high. Actually the bar for my D to keep high grades is higher to stay in Tisch Scholars (which is NOT a scholarship but merely a selected program she is in). My daughter would just try to do her best in classes even if it weren't tied to any scholarship and so you have to see how your D feels about that. </p>
<p>The AC is nice to have but the only times she really needs it are Sept. and May and school gets out at the beginning of May. Having fans could suffice. </p>
<p>And by the way, not all the other kids who attend are "wealthy". She will be busy and it is not like she will be going out on the town and seeing Broadway shows on a nightly basis. There are low cost things to do. And there is student rush for shows. Yes, spending money is needed. But if she has one night free per week, she is doing well. </p>
<p>Put your D's college options side by side. I don't know if she is also accepted to a school she likes almost as much as NYU and if the cost would be way cheaper or not. Perhaps you can make this work. It is a very personal decision.</p>
<p>Can you give an idea of what a dance major's day is like? How long in dance classes, How many breaks? How many academic classes etc.? Thanks.</p>
<p>soozievt, thank you, I appreciate your thoughts.</p>
<p>San, </p>
<p>I thought of one more idea, and not sure it applies to your D or not. It seems that many Tisch Drama students are able to graduate in 3 1/2 years and it is fairly common. Is your D accepted to CAP21? The CAP program itself is 3 1/2 years (I'm not talking of the college degree itself). In senior year, you can do the showcase semester in either fall or spring. The other semester is more academic. It seems that many are able to graduate in 3 1/2 years because they have entered NYU with AP credits. In some cases, maybe they attend one summer (which is cheaper than a semester) and take some courses. If your D were to do this, the total for tuition/room/board would be less in those latter two years that you are concerned about. </p>
<p>My D is NOT doing this. For one thing, she would not have the credits, but for another, she has NO desire to attend for less than four years. In HER case, our HS barely has any AP classes. My D graduated high school in three years and entered college at 16. The only AP she had was in 11th grade, she took AP Calculus which is normally for seniors. But she never took the exam due to missing a chunk of school in that final spring due to being injured in a severe car crash. So, there were no AP "exam" credits. No other APs are possible at our school, at least back when she attended, and also she only went through her junior year. Also, she already will graduate college at 20 and feels no need to rush it. But OTHER students do seem to do this and they do save money by doing so. It must be kinda common because even my D's studio advisor, the head of CAP21, asked her back in freshman year if she is planning to graduate college early! NO, she is not. But your D, if she has some AP credits and perhaps if she added a course or two in summer, might be able to save tuition money by graduating in 3 1/2 years. She would still be able to complete the entire CAP21 curriculum which spans 7 semesters. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Hey,
I'm in a very similar boat--So I wanted to write to tell you you're definitely not alone. I'm a single mom of five kids. My S is my oldest. I too am really scared of the whole financial thing. His dad is refusing to commit to anything, so I'm going to budget it with him completely out of the picture. I'm a H.S schoolteacher. So you can imagine how we dont' have a whole lot of money.</p>
<p>I don't know what to make of the whole work study/work thing. My S is not as talented or mature as your D sounds, Soozievt. I think he was looking more for a quiet job he could do his homework in and also get paid. But I keep hearing different things from different people on the work. Tisch says it's possible to do work study, but parents like you (and many others) say that it's clearly impossible. And I have yet to hear from a student on this. Anybody want to take this up? Students: Is it possible to do a work study??</p>
<p>I also have a question about Tisch's "Low-cost" housing. What precisely does this mean? Cockroaches and rats?? :) It looks like you can save thousands, which would be awesome. Anybody know anything about this?</p>
<p>Thanks! Take care, all--</p>
<p>Raphael....perhaps your son could be an RA in his upper grades. Maybe someone can do a work study job but something would have to go. The fact is that they have school all day. If they want to be involved in shows, it involves evenings until pretty late and usually weekends. Those are optional of course but these experiences are truly part of earning a performance oriented degree. A flexible job is easier to fit in. </p>
<p>My D did not do low cost housing. However, the issue of urban living likely exists no matter if you do the low cost or other dorms. My D's freshman dorm occasionally had mice. Yeah, that did freak her out a bit but honestly we have mice here in the country too but it is just that our cats get them, LOL. She has never mentioned seeing any cockroaches and this is her second year and second dorm. That said, I lived in Cambridge, MA for four years spanning college and grad school. We had cockroaches. Yes, I hated that but it was part of city living there! You have NO clue my fear of bugs and creepy things. When we got out of grad school and moved to Vermont, we loaded up a truck with all of our stuff....we sprayed every carton with roach spray and then "bombed" the truck's interiors on our drive to Vermont and never brought a roach with us (nor do they tend to exist in VT). So, I can't promise you what your kids will find in the city but I don't think those issues are different depending on the cost of the dorm. The apartment style dorms have some advantages, including kitchens.</p>
<p>Hi all - yes, Tisch is expensive. As part of the financial aid package, my d was supposed to get work study. Problem is, she has studio 3 days a week (as does all Tisch students!) and it was impossible to find a job for the other days when she had regular classes (at varied times). So don't count on work study! Also, as SoozieVT said, the first semester (and maybe second? can't remember!) students are REQUIRED to do tech work, so that precludes working at another job in the evenings, at least. I wish someone had told ME that before!! I asked my d if she could be an RA for next year, but again, she said her studio hours would be a problem. Also, most students want to participate in the many shows available; again, not great for an outside job.
As far as being worth it to go for 2 years, I would THINK that many schools would accept NYU transcripts (assuming she attends another drama program) but obviously that would depend on the school. Good luck!</p>
<p>Hi Soozievt,
That's the problem with email--No nuance! I was totally being facetious about the roaches and rats. I'm from north Jersey, and live now in South Jersey, and grew up going to NYC nearly every weekend. Plus, I've lived in student housing and in Boston. Enough said! </p>
<p>No, my point was: What is the difference between 'low-cost' housing and 'regular' housing? Why is it low cost? It just seems like such a great deal--Anybody know?</p>
<p>Thanks--</p>
<p>Low cost is much smaller, but that also depends on the dorm. Some low cost are much nicer than other low cost, and later on some low cost is nicer than regular/high cost. </p>
<p>For my freshman year, I have one roomate, and two suitemates. I am not currently in low cost, but some low costs have 3 people in the same space where people have two. </p>
<p>Basically, low cost means less space/possibly more people.</p>
<p>It's probably ridiculous to be asking this now.. but what is a typical freshman's day like in the dramatic writing program? I have the list of courses, but how much time do they take each week?</p>
<p>raphael, sorry, didn't realize you were kidding! But hey, I grew up in South Jersey and that's where my family lives. Didn't realize you were from there.</p>
<p>Hi, All, I haven't posted in a while, but my S. graduated from Tisch, Playwrights in 3 years and saved us a bundle. HOWEVER in the long run, he is now facing the "I am 22, a director, actor, playwright, and I am too young problem. It may sound strange but that is also a problem on the out side of college. I'll keep you up to date to se how this all plays out! Cam</p>
<p>Thanks all, for your posts. It does help to know others are in the same boat. I am evaluating refinancing my mortgage instead of PLUS loans, but I have to see which will work out better (I don't know the nuances of each, and for this year, I think I'm fortunate to be able to slide by with the aid received and with my and her savings. I have another daughter to support so I didn't want to get too much in debt too soon. But I know it's coming!) </p>
<p>We did send in the acceptance... and we'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the advice. We'll apply for low cost housing and see if she can do a workstudy, but be prepared in case she can't. We did talk about graduating early (hopefully she'll have a few AP credits) and we'll see how it goes (she'll be in Playwrights, and after the 1st two years there and almost anywhere else I think they get to design their curriculum and decide whether to stay in a studio, apply to transfer, or do more academics.) </p>
<p>Yes, they said low cost housing is just more kids in the room. I can see the bathroom could be a problem, but I know other kids who shared a suite at another school with 5 girls and only one bathroom, so it can be done.</p>
<p>I did find out that if a student wants to be an RA in Jr year, s/he has to sign up in fall of sophomore year for the 6-meeting course offered by the Office of Residential Living. They use that both to give out info and to do a pre-evaluation of the candidates so they know who they want to encourage to apply.</p>
<p>san, Congrats to your daughter... I hope she'll find Playwrights to be a great fit! It's been a wonderful experience for my son, but I know he would not have been organized enough to manage workstudy his 1st year.</p>
<p>Cam, thank you for staying in touch regarding the post-graduation experiences of your s. I know it's only a matter of (hopefully short) time, before his youth is a non-issue. Talent and perseverance will win out.</p>
<p>San, chiming in as well and I'm glad that you are finding a way to have things work out for your daughter. The kids I know in Playwrights love it. I know you mentioned the option of changing studios after two years and that is certainly a great option. But your D should also know, if she is into MT, that Playwrights has a Musical Theater workshop option that I think is for two semesters. Definitely look into financing options, as needed, but I just want to mention that the Parent Plus loans tend to be a good rate as they are meant for college education, compared to other loans out there. </p>
<p>Camge, I know your son is already doing some great things and building up his resume and I'm sure there is lots more in his future. I think my D had good friends in a production your son put on this year. It is a tough field, as you know, but with his talents, step by step, he is building his career. These young adults are still young and there is so much more to come. When my D graduates, she'll only be 20 and that really is young in the scheme of life.</p>
<p>I am seriously thinking about ETW for the fall but I have some questions?</p>
<p>what academics do i have to take?
is it through college of arts and sciences?
what are the double major/minor options?
study abroad possible?
chance to do MT if not in CAP21?
can i take voice for sure?
what about some dance classes?</p>
<p>what is a studio day like for ETW in the primary years?</p>
<p>ok, sooo lots of questions ... im just nervous to committ and its getting so close to May 1st ... any info ASAP!!!! would be great</p>