Questions on ED to need-based schools

<p>I'm applying ED to a school that has a hefty price-tag (more than 40000+ a year, including room, board, books, etc.), and I know that my family definately cannot carry that load (EFC says about 18000 a year). However, that school is also need-based, which means they will put together a fin. aid package that will cover what my family can't afford to pay, right?</p>

<p>So, please alleviate my worries by giving some firm belief to what I've understood about need-based colleges:
Will that financial aid package REALLY cover ALL of what my family can't afford to pay? Or at least, a good percentage of it? </p>

<p>I jumped up and down when I read what "need-based" was after looking it up-- It sounded too good to be true!
So of course, I needed to dig deeper so I wouldn't put my family in a pickle.</p>

<p>Also, in general, do you think it wise for somebody who cannot afford a college of such a hefty price tag to apply early decision to it, even if it is need-based? </p>

<p>My counselor is known not to be of great help (and that's putting it extremely lightly from what I've heard), so I must beg of you to answer my silly questions.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Well first, financial packages depend on the college. Do you mind sharing which one you are considering? As many on here know, I am personally partial to merit based aid. However, I am aware of many people receiving very nice need-based packages. The package will consist of work-study, loans, and grants. Loan are typically capped at 6,000 annually, and some schools with large endowment do not put any loans in the package. Now, while the school may be need-blind and meet 100% of need, that is not 100% of want. Huge difference. It is not their job to make it comfortable for you or your family. They will meet all need, but that may still mean forking over a huge percentage of any investments and extra incomes you may have.</p>

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<p>Well...maybe. First, most schools still require a student contribution. Second, the school could choose to meet your need by giving you a financial aid package that has significant loans (I'm not sure where the previous poster got the $6k cap....). Remember also, that many schools that meet full need also use the Profile as part of their finaid application process. This more closely examines your family's assets (home equity is a big one) and the expectation is that your can tap into that equity for college expenses. This advice has been given HUNDREDS of times on this forum. If finances are a consideration DO NOT APPLY ED. ED is binding...and you must withdraw your other applications and accept enrollment. Sure...it says that you can pull out f an ED decision if your finaid needs are not meant...but remember too, the COLLEGE will determine what they think your family can pay...not your family. If you think that your total cost at this "need based" school will only be $18,000 for the first year, you may end up being very disappointed when the real cost is higher. It is NOT wise to apply ED to a school that you cannot afford to attend.</p>

<p>Ah.
I am considering applying to Wesleyan U ED, HOBYNC. I researched, and I found out the average need-based package is 26k+, which meets over half of the costs for college, so that softened any qualms I had about applying ED. Is it wise to expect that my package could possibly be that large, as well? I know my family most definately qualifies for financial aid. </p>

<p>Thumper-
do you know if the EFC calculator on the collegeboard site an accurate forecast of how much my family can contribute? I used accurate information in filling it out, and I was referred from the finan. aid site on Wesleyan's actual website to that calculator-- so I am hoping that Wesleyan's actual determination of how much my family can actually contribute will be in that area.
Ah, and 18000 is how much my family can afford to contribute; the actual costs of Wesleyan itself are 45k+.
My family does not own a home, nor have any major assets for that matter. I know Wesleyan gives out rather cushy financial aid packages, as far as what I have been seeing on websites and in books. However, I do realize it is quite a gamble I am considering.</p>

<p>Is there any chance I could talk to my college of choice about this, too? </p>

<p>And just to make sure: pulling out of an early decision statement means that my offers from all other colleges might be withdrawn as well, right? Being blacklisted is the last thing I want to be. </p>

<p>Ay carumba. This is crazy.</p>

<p>But thank you both very much. You have no idea how much I appreciate your advice thus far.</p>

<p>First of all I agree with everything that Thumper has already said.</p>

<p>If you are in deed from the lovely country of Japan, please keep in mind that most universities in the U.S. are not need blind to international students so your ability to pay will be a factor in your admissions.</p>

<p>Financial aid for international students is extremely limited and is awarded on the basis of both exceptional qualifications and demonstrated need.* Wesleyan expects to provide financial assistance to approximately 15 international students from a pool of over 400 such applicants. *No financial aid is available for transfer students who are not US citizens or eligible non-citizens.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wesleyan.edu/finaid/prospundergrad.html#International%20Students%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wesleyan.edu/finaid/prospundergrad.html#International%20Students&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm applying ED to a school that has a hefty price-tag (more than 40000+ a year, including room, board, books, etc.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Is this EFC based on just putting your numbers through the FAFSA? I see from some of your other posts that you are interested in Wesleyan. Like Thumper already stated, this school will also require a CSS profile, which will look at your assets much more deeply than the FAFSA does. If your parents are homeowners, own their own business, etc. I would expect your EFC to be higher than the 18,000 you anticipate.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I know that my family definately cannot carry that load (EFC says about 18000 a year). However, that school is also need-based, which means they will put together a fin. aid package that will cover what my family can't afford to pay, right/

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Need based finanicial aid based on the following premise;</p>

<p>cost of attendance- EFC (family & Student) = Demonstrated need. Wesleyan has a 1900 student contribution freshman year, Sophomore & Junior year-$2,100 Senior year $2,150</p>

<p>THe college determines the demonstrated need based on your income and assets and that of your parents. IF your parents cannot afford the EFC (expected family contribution) as determined by the school, they will have borrow the money as the school does not give you money toward your EFC.</p>

<p>Your demonstrated need will be met as the following;</p>

<p>Student self help (your loans and work study)</p>

<p>Right now Wesleyan's loans are as follows:</p>

<p>First-year Student $3,925
Sophomore $5,900
Junior $5,500
Senior $5,500</p>

<p>Work study is as follows:</p>

<p>First-year Student $2,300 Junior $2,400
Sophomore $2,400 Senior $2,500</p>

<p>Lets do the following scenario:</p>

<p>Say you get accepted to Wesleyan ED and your Parent's EFC is 18000.</p>

<p>The current cost of attendance is 44,434</p>

<p>44,434-19,900 = 23,534 (your demonstrated need which Wesleyan will meet)</p>

<p>Your demonstrated need will be met as follows:</p>

<p>Self help- 6225 broken down as
student loans 3925
Work study 2300</p>

<p>Grant- 17,309</p>

<p>If you and your family can work with these numbers (expect the EFC to be higher based on your assets and the grant aid to be lower) then apply ED. But if your parents are going to have a problem paying the 18,000+ EFC, then DO NOT APPLY ED.</p>

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<p>What your family can afford to pay, and your EFC as calculated by the college may not be the same.</p>

<p>First off, I'd like to thank you, sybbie719. Your post was really insightful and has got my mind cranking again.</p>

<p>Ah, and I should have given more info.
Hm. I am a U.S. citizen who has lived in Japan for ten years. I go to an American school in Japan (DoDEA-based), so I don't think getting finan. aid will be a problem. :P
And yes, EFC is calculated based on info from the FAFSA... will that provide an accurate "picture"? </p>

<p>Oh gracious, once again, I want to thank you. I wish I could give you a hug.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am hoping that Wesleyan's actual determination of how much my family can actually contribute will be in that area.
Ah, and 18000 is how much my family can afford to contribute; the actual costs of Wesleyan itself are 45k+.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your EFC will not be based on how much your family can afford to contribute. It will be based on their actual income and assets including money in the bank, stock, inheritances, property, businesses, etc.</p>

<p>There will be a big difference between the EFC numbers your get for the FAFSA which only determines your eligibility for federal aid (pell grants and loans) and the CSS profile which is what the college uses to determine how they are going to distribute their institutional funds .</p>

<p>I would recommend running your numbers on the college board's FA calculator again this time using the institutional methodology (Wes uses the fafsa and the profile)</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

<p>As a student, there are cumulative limit of $23,000 which you can borrow for an undergraduate education using stafford loans.</p>

<p>ah. gomen.
sorry. kind of late here. ><</p>

<p>Wow.
Definately helpful.</p>

<p>So, EFC is only for pell grants and the such.
CSS is what colleges use for direct finan. aid packages.
Gotcha.</p>

<p>This is going to be one heck of a long, long journey.</p>

<p>You are making a big mistake to apply ED if financial aid is a concern. Remember, the college decides on your need, not your family. The college also decides on your financial aid package and could choose to give you your aid package all in loans.</p>

<p>If you check in CC's archives, you'll find lots of reason not to do what you're doing. This includes seeing posts by disappointed students who got into their dream schools ED, but then couldn't afford to go. You also would see the benefits of applying RD so that you can compare financial aid packages and even negotiate if your dream school's package is not what your family wants.</p>

<p>Even 100% need-based colleges have flexibility in how they construct your aid package and how they figure out what your actual need is. You can find posts on CC from people who were able to get better financial aid from their dream schools when they were able to show the dream schools better financial aid packages from other colleges.</p>

<p>Also, it can be very hard to back out of ED even if your aid is not what you expected. As long as the college feels it met your need, it may not release you from your ED commitment, and that could end your chances of getting into other schools that are ranked that high.</p>

<p>Let me just state one more time what has been posted - applying ED when you need financial aid is really tricky. When you apply RD you have the ability to negotiate one offer against another. As I have posted on other threads my D was accepted by 5 schools a year ago - all of which received the same information - and the offers varied by many thousands of dollars. We were able to use the aid of one Ivy to raise her first choice Ivy - a reduction in loan amount and increase in scholarship with the promise, in writing, that certain provisions (not counting home equity, level of loans) would remain for four years. You could be one of the lucky ones and be admitted with a stellar package but just don't think that EFC is what your family will be asked to pay.</p>

<p>Sybbie, your post #8 is wonderful. That deserves a topic ("Difference between FM & IM") all its own and a sticky to keep it on top - and I hope the moderators see the post and put it up where all can see it.</p>

<p>res__nullius -- do NOT apply ED. You will be much, much better off with a RD admit. Wesleyan is a college that particularly values diversity in its students, so the fact that you have lived in Japan for 10 years and attended a DoD school will make you stand out. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "hook" - but it will definitely make you a little bit different in the eyes of the ad com and is worth as much as whatever supposed advantage ED gives. </p>

<p>Please -- keep your options open. Your family will be much better off if you have a number of choices in the spring -- and you will also be in a better positiojn to negotiated financial aid with your top choice colleges. When you see the financial aid packages, you might also change your mind about which college is your top choice. With both my kids, the need-based awards from various colleges have varied by about $9000 between lowest/highest offers. Your best bet is to apply to Wesleyan and one or two other similarly-ranked 100% need colleges, and back that up with applications to some strong but less selective colleges that are likely to supplement the need aid with merit awards.</p>

<p>Wow.
All of you are wonderful and fantastic.</p>

<p>I most definately will not apply ED now... the issues that arise from applying ED definately outweigh the benefits. </p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>