"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

[tokenadult]

<p>Education Week report on the upcoming Supreme Court case: </p>

<p>[Education</a> Week: Affirmative Action Case Up for Airing at High Court](<a href=“Affirmative Action Case Up for Airing at High Court”>Affirmative Action Case Up for Airing at High Court)</p>

[lake42ks]

<p>I thought I heard something on NPR that now more people check double boxes on race, mostly black/white or asian/white. If a DNA test shows that one is 98% white and 2% asian, can she claim to be asian? Is there anyone who’s 100% of anything?</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

If a DNA test shows that one is 98% white and 2% asian, can she claim to be asian?

</p>

<p>I’m not sure why anyone would want to claim to be an “overrepresented” minority. Moreover, it’s not clear to me that DNA tests can lead to such ‘results.’</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>DNA does not show what “race” someone is. As the Census Bureau says, </p>

<p>“The U.S. Census Bureau collects race data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and these data are based on self-identification. The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as ‘American Indian’ and ‘White.’ People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.” </p>

<p>[Information</a> on Race](<a href=“http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI525211.htm]Information”>http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_RHI525211.htm) </p>

<p>A similar statement is found as footnote 7 in the Census Brief 2010 “Overview of Race and Hispanic Origin: 2010” </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf[/url]”>http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>“The race categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and are not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race question include race and national origin or sociocultural groups.”</p>

[cortana431]

<p>Don’t know if this has been asked before, but I understand that if the Supreme Court rules for Fisher in the upcoming case, affirmative action in public universities will end, but how will it affect affirmative actions at private universities? Will they have to ban racial preferences as well? and why?</p>

<p>thanks</p>

[StitchInTime]

<p>There’s more than meets the eye in this New York Times piece on [With</a> Affirmative Action, India’s Rich Gain School Slots Meant for Poor](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/world/asia/indias-rich-benefit-from-schools-affirmative-action.html]With”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/world/asia/indias-rich-benefit-from-schools-affirmative-action.html). </p>

<p>It details a social dynamic in India that has a corollary in the U.S.:</p>

<p>

…Indeed, caste awareness among the young is sustained in part because of set-asides, so a program intended to eliminate the caste system is now blamed by many for sustaining it…

</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>I find the results of a recent poll on “millennials’” views on racial preferences to be encouraging.</p>

<p>[57%</a> of Millennials Oppose Racial Preferences](<a href=“http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2012/1004/Poll-57-percent-of-Millennials-oppose-racial-preferences-for-college-hiring]57%”>Poll: 57 percent of Millennials oppose racial preferences for college, hiring - CSMonitor.com)</p>

[jpokey]

<p>I’m half white and half asian (I have a white last name). Should I put white or biracial on my college apps?</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>^ To answer the question immediately above, it’s up to you how you answer the question. The question is optional so you can leave it blank. The form of the question is a list of “races” defined by federal regulation, with “choose one or more” in front of the list. There is no “biracial” category. </p>

<p>Commentary on the Supreme Court case argued today from the Volokh Conspiracy group blog: </p>

<p>[The</a> Volokh Conspiracy The Novelty of Fisher v. University of Texas](<a href=“http://www.volokh.com/2012/10/09/the-novelty-of-fisher-v-texas/]The”>The Novelty of Fisher v. University of Texas - The Volokh ConspiracyThe Volokh Conspiracy)</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>“When asked generally whether they support or oppose the use of affirmative action to help blacks or other minorities get ahead because of past discrimination, 47 percent of Millennials said they oppose it, while 38 percent supported it.”</p>

<p>That seems like an odd way to phrase the question, and seems it would pull for that age group to reject the idea, if it is for that reason…</p>

[toughyear]

<p>“UT says its race-conscious admissions bracket isn’t necessary to ensure minority enrollment. Instead, it is designed for middle- or upper-class children of African-American and Hispanic professionals who attend more competitive schools along with white and Asian-American students.”
[Justices</a> Clash Over Affirmative Action - WSJ.com](<a href=“Justices Clash Over Affirmative Action - WSJ”>Justices Clash Over Affirmative Action - WSJ)</p>

<p>They want to use it to boost admission of socially more privileged blacks and hispanics over whites and asians. This is racial discrimination, period. So here the blacks and hispanics want the college admission to conduct racial discrimination for their benefit?? So Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton will cry foul because the college admission refuses to discriminate race by ending the Affirmative Action in College Admission??? Abolish AA in College Admission!!!</p>

[toughyear]

<p>"Since the mid-1990s, nine states have engaged in such experiments. Seven states have banned affirmative action in public-university admissions: Arizona, California, Florida, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, and Washington – states that account for 28 percent of US high school students, according to a new report by The Century Foundation, a think tank in Washington and New York. And both Texas and Georgia have had periods of time where lower courts ruled out the consideration of race.</p>

<p>One common alternative has been to give weight to applicants who come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Another is to set up ties with K-12 schools to create a pipeline for and help prepare disadvantaged students. In three of the states, the top universities have also dropped “legacy” preferences for children of alumni, which tend to benefit whites, the Century Foundation report notes.</p>

<p>The impact on underrepresented-minority enrollment at selective institutions has varied, with some still struggling with significant declines while others have achieved rates similar to those before the bans.</p>

<p>Universities “know they can … create that diversity without using race; it’s just more difficult and more expensive,” says Richard Kahlenberg, an advocate of income-based integration in education and the main author of the Century Foundation report released last week, “A Better Affirmative Action.”"
[Supreme</a> Court: If affirmative action is banned, what happens at colleges? - CSMonitor.com](<a href=“http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2012/1009/Supreme-Court-If-affirmative-action-is-banned-what-happens-at-colleges]Supreme”>Supreme Court: If affirmative action is banned, what happens at colleges? - CSMonitor.com)</p>

<p>Ending ‘Legacy admission’ and Affirmative action simultaneously will be quite fair. The former tends to favor whites and the latter the blacks and hispanics. At a time when the college admission rates in some elite colleges are in the single digits, it seems utterly fair and important to end both legacy admission and affirmative action. All the Ivy league schools better end these practices that suffocate the high school students and choke the throats of college admission.</p>

<p>STOP LEGACY ADMISSION AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION!</p>

[toughyear]

<p>

</p>

<p>isher’s lawsuit challenges one of two ways the school seeks to achieve racial diversity. One, written into Texas law, requires the school to accept the students from the top 10% of each high school in the state. Since Texas schools, especially in poor districts, tend to be highly ethnically segregated, that boosts the admissions of black and Latino students to 21%. But the college also considers race in admissions for the final 25% of the class, in addition to a wide variety of other qualifications.</p>

<p>Only 15% of students accepted under the second process are black or Latino, prompting Kennedy to ask Rein how a white or Asian student could be harmed, since they actually have a higher chance of getting in. “If it’s so few, then what’s the problem,” Kennedy asked. Rein said the lower level of admissions meant it was uneccessary to consider race.</p>

<p>“Are you saying that you shouldn’t impose this hurt or this injury, generally, for so little benefit; is that the point?” Kennedy asked, making Rein’s legal argument for him.</p>

<p>At another point Justice Antonin Scalia asked the university’s lawyer, Gregory Garre, whether the school would give preferences to minority students from privileged backgrounds. Garre said yes, because the school sought diversity even within minority groups, since so many of the minority students admitted under the top 10% plan came from poor families.</p>

<p>“But this has nothing to do with racial diversity,” Scalia said. “I mean, you’re talking about something else.”</p>

<p>Alito also seemed concerned that wealthy students from preferred minorities might have an advantage over other applicants.</p>

<p>If you have -you have an applicant whose parents are — let’s say they’re — one of them is a partner in your law firm in Texas, another one is a part — is another corporate lawyer. They have income that puts them in the top 1 percent of earners in the country, and they have -parents both have graduate degrees. They deserve a leg-up against, let’s say, an Asian or a white applicant whose parents are absolutely average in terms of education and income?</p>

<p>Garre reversed course, saying the school goes out of its way to recruit students from disadvantaged backgrounds.</p>

<p>Roberts also picked at Garre, asking how the school determined the race of its students in the first place. He asked if someone one-fourth Hispanic should check the Hispanic box and Garre said that would be “self-determined.” Roberts then asked whether that would violate the school’s honor code. Garre said no.</p>

<p>“So how do you know you have 15 percent African American — Hispanic or 15 percent minority?” Roberts asked.
“Your Honor, the same way that that determination is made in any other situation I’m aware of where race is taken into account,” Garre said, through self-identification.

</p>

<p>Partial URM’s with a Chinese or Korean last name are still screwed. Who would believe a Mr.Wang or a Mr.Kim, a hispanic or black even if he is 75% URM?</p>

[toughyear]

<p>

“What we are concerned about … is universities like UT and many others have read (the Michigan decision) to be ‘green light, use race, no endpoint,’” Rein said. “That unchecked use of race … needs to be corralled.”</p>

<p>Conservatives who have backed Fisher’s case are hoping the court won’t just throw out Texas’ system but overrule the 2003 decision – in essence, eliminating racial preferences in college admissions. That would force both public and private schools to change the way they give preferences to blacks and other minorities whom they consider underrepresented on their campuses.

</p>

<p>I am 100% with the conservative justices on this one. Stop the racial favoritism and stop the legacy admission.</p>

[Philovitist]

<p>Might this case affect admissions for the class of 2017?</p>

[Philovitist]

<p>Oh, I see. A decision is expected by July.</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>New York Times reporting on today’s oral argument at the Supreme Court: </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/us/a-changed-court-revisits-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/us/a-changed-court-revisits-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[toughyear]

<p>^ Ya, too bad. Even if the decision overturns the current race-based admission practices, the current high school seniors won’t be affected. I will post one last copy of paper …

“Taking the top 10 percent of a racially identifiable high school may get you diversity that looks OK on paper, but it doesn’t guarantee you diversity that produces educational benefits on campus,” he told the justices.
What Texas was seeking, he said, were enough black and Hispanic students to create a welcoming environment among minorities and greater opportunities for cross-racial interactions on campus and in classrooms.</p>

<p>To reach that “critical mass,” he said the school wanted to attract a full range of minority students – including students from affluent minority families.</p>

<p>Justice Samuel Alito questioned why Texas considered the top 10 percent plan faulty simply because it didn’t admit enough black and Hispanic students from privileged backgrounds.</p>

<p>He suggested the hypothetical example of a minority student whose parents were both lawyers with incomes in the top 1 percent of earners in the US.</p>

<p>“They deserve a leg-up against, let’s say, an Asian or a white applicant whose parents are absolutely average in terms of education and income,” Justice Alito asked.</p>

<p>“We want minorities from different backgrounds,” Mr. Garre replied. He said the admissions process seeks to achieve a degree of diversity within the minority student population – including economic diversity.</p>

<p>**“So what you are saying is that what counts is race above all,” Kennedy said.</p>

<p>“No, your honor, what counts is different experiences,” Garre replied.</p>

<p>“You want underprivileged of a certain race and privileged of a certain race,” Kennedy said. “So that’s race.”**</p>

<p>Fisher’s lawyer, Bert Rein, told the justices the university had already demonstrated the ability to assemble a diverse student body through the mandated 10 percent plan.</p>

<p>** “We don’t believe they have shown any necessity for doing what they are doing,” he said. “Race should have been the last resort; it was a first resort.”</p>

<p>Mr. Rein said the university was engaged in an unchecked use of race, what he termed “an abominable kind of sorting out.”</p>

<p>Instead, he said, the Constitution requires government officials to face the highest level of judicial scrutiny before using race to grant benefits, and only then as a last resort.**

[Supreme</a> Court: In affirmative action arguments, conservative bloc seems united - CSMonitor.com](<a href=“http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/1010/Supreme-Court-In-affirmative-action-arguments-conservative-bloc-seems-united]Supreme”>Supreme Court: In affirmative action arguments, conservative bloc seems united - CSMonitor.com)</p>

<p>the Constitution requires government officials to face the highest level of judicial scrutiny before using race to grant benefits, and only then as a last resort. … The Ivy schools incl. harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. should be investigated to find how liberal they are in using race against some of the individual applicants. Rejecting applicants based on race or admitting applicants based on race, when all other factors being equal, is a clear practice of racism wouldn’t you say?</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>See the FAQ post that is [post</a> # 7](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14635806-post7.html]post”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14635806-post7.html) in this thread for the current law announced by the Supreme Court, which is that racial discrimination in college admission is illegal for public colleges (holding) and private colleges (dictum) under both the federal Constitution and federal statute, except for the purpose of promoting campus diversity as part of a multi-factor program of admission. The holding of the Supreme Court in the current case (another case involving a public college) is likely to apply equally to private colleges, once the holding is announced.</p>

[tokenadult]

<p>Commentary on the case before the Supreme Court as part of a book review from The New Republic by Richard D. Kahlenberg: </p>

<p>[Richard</a> D. Kahlenberg Reviews “Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It?s Intended To Help, And Why Universities Won?t Admit It” | The New Republic](<a href=“Richard D. Kahlenberg Reviews "Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It" | The New Republic”>Richard D. Kahlenberg Reviews "Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It" | The New Republic)</p>