<p>@theanaconda I think it’s because privates sometimes want a racial makeup that resembles the country’s, but there’s only so much they can do without ignoring stats, so it’s never a perfect representation. Correct me if I’m wrong.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think colleges make things harder for Asians than for Caucasians per say. In admissions, you’re competing against your own race. Whether it’s fair or not, that’s how the system works. Since Asian American applicants tend to achieve at higher levels, competition is fiercer. The only people edging out Asian Americans are other Asian Americans. Not whites, not URMs. They’re on separate pools, you could say.</p>
<p>@theanaconda I never said that it is a flawless system. But many URMs have been given a chance at social mobility because of affirmative action. My reason behind mentioning jobs was to make this point: Many URMs are low income because they have been denied opportunities because of their race. Being low income stops them from having educational opportunities, thus, excluding them from admissions to elite colleges. The only reason why AA does apply to Asian Americans. It just depends on the school. There are more schools out there besides the top 25 colleges on the USWNR. AA helps minorities at those top schools, and Asians at pretty much every other school along with URMs. I think that is pretty fair.</p>
<p>The one reason why it is more difficult to do in sports is that in admissions people can lie and hide in the shadows because the applicants records are not public. A slower athlete is publicly visible. The admissions people scream qualified even when the qualified bar is under the table for certain people and in the stars for others. What a joke. </p>
<p>What cracks me up is all these people who say they are for equality, who instead of making clear here is the standard to meet for all, are reinforcing that genetically certain races cannot cut it the education world. Why URMs would want to hang around and associate with people who think that they are less than is a mystery to me, I would be embarrassed as hell in such a position, and my kids would feel that way too. I rather work 10X as hard and make the grade than to be given a handout based on some people thinking I am inferior intellectually and cannot measure up to the best. Just that thought alone to me is repulsive.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus - thanks for the link. Somewhere recently I saw one that showed % of Pell on an axis with net cost, so you could see not only what schools Pell students were going to but which schools were giving them enough money to attend (these were privates as I recall). </p>
<p>But what about “holistic admissions”? Why wouldn’t top twenty colleges admit these amazing but underappreciated “underrepresented” minority applicants based on their extracurriculars, essays, and recommendations?</p>
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<p>Why do we have to “make sure” that “enough” “underrepresented” minorities are included in certain colleges?</p>
<p>Ruling came out today. Without the SCOTUS circus, this probably made only the local news. Will probably take a few more days for FoxNews, and perhaps CNN, to think it is worthy of a dialogue. Or perhaps, Nancy Grace will get involved. Can’t you hear the moron opening salvo? Poor Abigail. She was deprived by such injustice, but me, Nancy Grace will never stop seek justice for people such this poor soul who wanted to get an education. Stay tuned."</p>
<p>It’s. Always interesting when people discuss race because we all think that we’re behavioral scientists. It’s such a subjective topic because everyone can draw a conclusion based on a number or a story or an anecdote. I never wrote on this site while my children were engaged in the process. It was too close at that time. Now that my last one has moved on maybe I can bring a perspective from someone who benefitted as an African American from athletics and affirmative action and whose children have benefitted from the opportunities that started with me.
Black people in general don’t over respond to someone feeling that we’re not capable or qualified we learn early in life that there will be those who have that thought no matter the situation.
I don’t believe schools have as much of a goal to be socially diverse as much as a hope in the admission process to be culturally or ethnically diverse. I think economic diversity comes into play when judging an application when assessing just how capable a student really is based on what type of opportunities have been presented to that applicant. Ethnic diversity though is tangible. I can only speak to my own experience and community. When I walked on a campus with my children who were all heavily courted by schools I wanted to see other young people who looked like them,I could care less what they’re financial status was. Was there a critical mass of people who appeared physically and culturally like my kids. I do not think this is uncommon desire for most parents. If schools want the top black students to attend there must be something there for those kids and several of the top institutions understand this.
I think when schools who are still working behind the curve when it comes to the admission of URMs are going to go after the most qualified which minimizes, not totally but some, in the selection of a Black kids because several schools are still trying to grow their black population. So the well qualified black applicant esp. If male is always going to be sought after. And just like any other sector of society the kids with the most financial and physical resources will incur the most opportunities. </p>
<p>" But right, it’s perfectly logical and morally correct to make it easier for rich blacks to get into colleges than a poor asian as is presently the case."</p>
<p>" The research does not support you though. Similar poor whites and poor asians outperform African Americans, while attending the same schools and living in the same downtrodden-type neighborhoods. "</p>
<p>Please cite such research. If you are referring to the Baltimore research, I do not believe they sufficiently worked out the social factors such as single-parent homes (easy to note on an application). In fact, the CNN story about it mentioned that the whites in the area did better “likely because of two-parent homes”. My best friend grew up poor (on free lunch off and on) in a single-parent home. Saw his father every few weeks or so. Got zilch in child support and his brother too. Neither parent gave a crap about education. School was #300 of 325 schools in the state. Ended up getting into his top choice Ivy, with no AP classes, no SAT subject tests. White as a sheet of paper. </p>
<p>and tell me it is not hypocritical to say “the problem is unstable family situations and lack of social networks” but then say “it’s because they are black so that’s the only basis we can provide support based on”.</p>
<p>A quote from the article:
“The difference, though, is that many more white women were married or in a stable co-habiting relationship. An additional earner in the household makes a vast difference in economic well-being, which means that white men’s workplace advantages benefit white women as well.”</p>
<p>So if you are white growing up with a single parent, can you qualify as black? It is so ridiculous that it all comes back to race even when someone is trying to support racial equality!</p>
<p>What if you are Asian and grow up with a single parent and poor? You don’t deserve any kind of benefit? Check out the schools in Chinatown and see how great they do.</p>
<p>It is not easier for any black kid to get into college versus other ethnicities. That’s part of the reason for affirmative action. I’m not saying that a well qualified black kid won’t have more options. But overall a lower percentage of African Americans are able to attend quality 4 year institutions than any other ethnic group sans Native American. The reason that a middle class black kid ( I keep seeing the word rich thrown around. I’m not sure how we’re defining rich) has more opportunities than other sects is the under representation and private schools believe it’s a benefit to their institution to do what they can do remedy this problem. They’re not choosing URMs over anybody. If anything when talking with ad cons they’re still trying yo do things to grow the number of quality candidates of African and Latino descent since most schools are still severely under represented. </p>
<p>Why not? Your side lost Schuette this year and Fisher last year, and this is after you insisted that Schuette was a “cooked goose” in your side’s favor!</p>
<p>@rhandco
Just see UC Berkeley before and after affirmative action. URM numbers spiraled down, Asian numbers skyrocketed. Why? Keep in mind from what I’ve heard the UC system takes into account socioeconomic status more than the vast majority of schools in the country, not to mention they don’t weight sat scores as strongly, might restrict it to a single sitting score (if my memory serves me right), take class rank largely into account (Berkeley actually has a higher percentage of it’s students in the top 10% of their high school class than hypsm), yet it has like 43% Asian and low urm numbers. I think no elite school (except caltech) is above 20 or 25% Asian (even 25% is probably higher than any elite college I doubt past 22 or 23% but can’t recall exactly). That’s how strong affirmative action.</p>
<p>@Mayihelp while there can be legitimate debate as to whether URM’s deserve a leg up, I fail to see how much actual arguments can be made in favor of making it harder for a minority group to get into colleges than the majority group when the whole premise behind affirmative action is “white privilege” at the very least it should be no harder for Asians than whites. For those of you who say that colleges should resemble the population to help students “grow”, remember the global world is probably >50% Asian. </p>