<p>@ooohcollege I think it might be wise to stop bashing Asians. While I agree with you that diversity is different for each person, ethnic diversity is generally what the colleges mean when they say it wants a diverse campus, not your definition of geographic location. Under your definition, if students were from different states who were all White or all Asian or all Black or all Hispanic, the school would be diverse.</p>
<p>@voiveofreason66 In no way was I bashing asians but thank you for your own wise advice. It is a combination of factors for diversity. Schools like to say that they have students from all 50 states. Still colleges dont want all of their kids coming from one state. Im not saying that if a school was all white but with kids from different locations it would be that diverse but it would be more diverse than a school with only asians that were from california. That logic would work with whatever race you choose to input.</p>
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<p>Not so. Being from North Dakota is like the biggest hook in the world. Colleges love to say they have students from all 50 states, or so we have observed at info sessions over the past couple of years. I joke to D that we should move there just for this year :)</p>
<p>Well, then, if one/half of Hisp live in CA and Tx, then yes, it’s the same construct. Or if all potential math majors lived in NY. Or all violin players in MA. </p>
<p>“Not so. Being from North Dakota is like the biggest hook in the world. Colleges love to say they have students from all 50 states”</p>
<p>A poster on another thread is from rural Utah; kid got into elite school (I think Harvard); poster revealed that the Utah admit rate was 5%, same as the natl average. </p>
<p>Maybe it just seems like it :)</p>
<p>(though I’d say Utah is not N. Dakota. ND was mentioned as that elusive state keeping Amherst and a couple of others we visited this summer from saying “we have students from all 50 states”)</p>
<p>I’m part Taiwanese aborigine. A pretty good equivalent in terms of circumstances, traditional lifestyle, and even appearance would be the Native Americans of the U.S. An even more interesting indicator is that the gov’t in Taiwan applies AA to aborigines applying to Taiwanese schools. Anyhow, would schools in the U.S. regard me as exactly the same as a Han Chinese (the ethnicity of most people in China/Taiwan) or differently?</p>
<p>@supercilious: unless you have US citizenship or green card, you’d be considered an International applicant – just like other Han or Tawainese or Germans or New Zealanders or Brazilians – regardless of your Taiwan aboriginal status. The US preference for Native American aboriginals completely does not apply to you.</p>
<p>@T26E4 no, I’m a dual Taiwanese-American citizen, and I was born and raised in the States.</p>
<p>@supercilious You might not want to disclose your Asian ethnicity on your college application, since there are many schools that seem to discriminate/bias against Asian Americans in the admission process whether you are Han Chinese or Tawainese descent. </p>
<p>Just google “Asian American discrimination in college admissions” and you will find plenty of information of what I am talking about. You can even read my prior posts about Washington and Lee and its admission data on Asian American acceptance rates to see that disclosing ethnicity might sometimes be the wrong thing to do at some colleges or universities.</p>
<p>You are aware that there is a separate National Merit Scholarship designation for Blacks and Hispanics but not for Asians. Kind of tells it all.</p>
<p>VOR: I guess you’d be annoyed that there are scholarships for native americans too, right? You make some good points. But don’t over reach with platitudes.</p>
<p>@T26E4 Not sure why you think that I am annoyed with URMs receiving special considerations. My point was that while there is special recognition for many URMs, such recognition is not afforded Asian Americans. @supercilious wanted to know if U.S. universities view Taiwanese descendants differently from Han Chinese. The lack of special recognition by the National Merit people of Asian Americans might give him/her a better understanding that the distinction of Asian descent might not be much of a “hook” if at all.</p>
<p>Have you ever wondered why?</p>
<p>Not all Asian students are good at Math or get perfect SAT or come from wealthy homes. There are Asian students who are similarly situated as their Black, Hispanic and Native American brother-in. But because there are many Asian American students get high SAT scores and get outstanding grades the vast majority of Asian American students who do no live up to this expectation are left behind.</p>
<p>Colleges deny that they discriminate against Asian Americans, but study after study shows that in order for Asian students to get accepted into top colleges, they need to score hundreds a points higher on the SAT than their fellow URM students and about 150 points higher in the SAT than White students. When this is the case, worthy Asian students that come from disadvantaged backgrounds similar to Black, Hispanics and Native Americans have little to no chance of admissions since such a large number of top performing Asian students have already been admitted to these colleges.</p>
<p>My disappointment is that there are wonderful Asian American students, who have similar stats as their Black, Hispanic, Native American students that are admitted to top colleges, but will never get an opportunity to attend these institutions because these Asian students are lumped in with the top scoring Asians. </p>
<p>There isn’t a National Merit Achievement Scholarship for these worthy but not so top scoring Asians, who in many respects live lives that are just as difficult as their URM counterparts who receive these special recognition that aide them in their college pursuits. </p>
<p>So NO, I don’t believe that I “over reach with platitudes.” Not all Asian Americans fit the view of “model minority” and there are many Asian American students who need the jump start like their fellow URM but do not receive it.</p>
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<p>You know what the “U” in “URM” stands for, right?</p>
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<p>Many low income white students are in a similar situation.</p>
<p>@OHMomof2 Please read the entire thread before commenting and not take quotes out of context.</p>
<p>As to your comment about low income white students, I agree that those students need a jump start as well. </p>
<p>My principle issue is with colleges and universities that have low URM enrollment but discriminated/bias against URMs in its admission practices. I used Washington and Lee because I have admission data over 5 years broken down by ethnicity. </p>
<p>At W&L Asian American students represents about 3% of its entire student body so Asian American students are an Under Represented Minority at this school where White students are over 85% of student population. W&L admits White students at about 35% admit rate and Asian American students at about 10%. This is the case, even though Asian students on average have higher test scores and GPA than the White students. </p>
<p>Asian American students are accepted to W&L at about the same rate as Hispanics and African American students who have lower GPA and test scores hundreds of points lower than the Asian American students. The enrollment of Hispanic and African American students is about the same 3% as Asian American students. </p>
<p>W&L gets away with this type of behavior because it claims to have an “holistic” admission policy. In this instance, holistic means ability to discriminate by ethnicity without fear of getting caught. At W&L this discrimination/bias seems blatant, although other top schools such as Harvard, Yale etc the discrimination is not so blatant because a significant percentage of its students are URM and these schools can hide behind its number of URM students as a shield to accusations of possible discriminating/bias behavior. </p>
<p>So please in the future, please do not take quotes out of context.</p>
<p>Trust me, I’ve read the entire thread and commented on it as I saw fit several times before. If you read the entire thread you’d see that :)</p>
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<p>^ Is what you said. I didn’t realize you only had an issue with that one school (W&L), so thanks for clarifying.</p>
<p>Asian Americans are not under-represented at Harvard or Yale. At Harvard the latest class has 20%, Yale almost 17%. </p>
<p>In the US as a whole, 6% or so. </p>
<p>…and I do understand your argument that perhaps more Asians are qualified by test scores/GPA than may be represented at these schools, but that doesn’t make Asian students URMs which is a term that means “under-represented minorities”. </p>
<p>@OHMomof2 URM is a term of art. It is used to represent ethnic groups that are not in the majority. Based upon your assessment and definition, any ethnic minority who is represented by more than the general population at any institution is not an URM applicant. </p>
<p>Why do you believe this to be the proper definition?? I believe you are wrong. Just because Harvard has an Asian population of 20% does not mean that Asian Americans are over represented at Harvard if Harvard is turning away better qualified Asian Americans at higher rates than lesser qualified White applicants. Similarly situated students whether White or URM with similar qualification should have similar admission rates. </p>
<p>BTW Why if better qualified URM apply to an institution than White applicants can there not be a higher percentage of URM compared to the general population? Again, I find this type of discrimination/bias to be wrong. </p>
<p>As to your comment that I “only had an issue with that one school (W&L)” is also wrong. My issue is with all schools who behave similarly as W&L, it is not limited to just one school. </p>
<p>I have no problem with schools with low URM populations because few URM apply, as long as the schools do not go out of its way to limit URM enrollment by favoring less qualified White applicants at the expense of better qualified URM applicants. If a school is like W&L and accepts lesser qualified Whites at higher admission rates than higher qualified URM applicants at much lower admission rates, I have a problem with that and so should you.</p>
<p>At least schools like Harvard, Yale et. al. that deny highly qualified Asian American applicants at higher rates than their White counterparts can claim that its Asian American population is much higher than the general population to eschew issues of discrimination/bias in admissions by having a diverse student body. But schools like W&L where diversity is spoken as a good thing but its actual admission practices indicate that diversity is a plague that needs to be controlled, that’s plain wrong. The Admission departments of schools like W&L should be exposed for the discriminatory/bias institutions that they are even though I do not believe that actual school is discriminatory, just its adcom.</p>
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<p>Not a matter of my belief, that’s what the term means. Google it. Everyone’s. Every institution/college/grad school. </p>
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<p>Of course you can have this belief but it doesn’t change the meaning if the term “under-represented minority”. </p>
<p>URM stands for “under-represented minority.” The term explains itself.
We need a term for misinterpreting acronyms because they are never written out in full - anacronymisms?</p>
<p>[The</a> term does not explain itself.](<a href=“"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 11 - #17 by tokenadult - Applying to College - College Confidential Forums”>"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 11 - #17 by tokenadult - Applying to College - College Confidential Forums) It begs the question, relative to what?</p>
<p>Everywhere I’ve read it, it’s %at a school relative to % population in the US. YMMV.</p>