The schools want to have an interesting , diverse class. Surely this article has been linked multiple times in the many threads on this topic. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/education/edlife/affirmative-action-a-complicated-issue-for-asian-americans.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ending with this interesting thought
YOU are, perhaps, but please don’t define the term for everyone else or presume to dictate to all what “qualified” is.
…because the colleges in question are clearly not using the same definition you are.
jym You complain of parroting why are you still parroting the “diversity” mantra. I get it. Diversity is something that should be factored into the admission equation.
So given that how does that apply to W&L, a school that is denying URM including Asians left and right while admitting Whites at a school that is over 85% White.
BTW Burgarin’s statement “I fear that if affirmative action is overthrown by the Supreme Court, our elite campuses will look like U.C.L.A. and Berkeley” is very racist. Does he say the same thing about schools that are mostly White like W&L? No he does not.
OHMom Now your true colors are showing.
My (white) kids both attend top schools, and goodness knows there is no shortage of Asians among their friends, classmates and fellow club members. Most of my kids’ pics on FB consist of them, maybe one other white person, and a sea of Asian friends and classmates engaging in whatever activity! Really, there ain’t no shortage. I think it’s great, personally.
Everyone who disagrees with you is showing their “true colors?” VOR. I would guess you would assume that color is lily white and that none of us have ever experienced discrimination.
Pizzagirl You might want to reread what you wrote because it really isn’t helping your case. Your hole gets deeper.
jym no, everyone who disagrees with me are not showing their true colors, only those whose comments reflect it. When have I ever said Whites aren’t discriminated? In fact, I argue that Whites should not be discriminated just as Asians shouldn’t be.
So it isn’t what you say but how you say it and the broad brush that you say it with that leads me to my opinions.
If my true colors are reflected in “colleges determine their own definition of ‘qualified’” then I’m glad posting that wasn’t a waste of time.
When the largest racial group is white (HYP for sure, probably S), no one except Asians complains. When the largest racial group is Asian (Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Technical HS, UC Berkeley, UCLA, Caltech) all sorts of people think askance of the admissions policies.
Ditto
(second Patrick Swayze movie reference that is probably missed.)
Asian students are NOT homogeneously excellent. They actually aren’t even homogeneously hard-working. Their CULTURE expects that they should be, and faithful parents definitely do their duty emphasizing that, but often Junior just doesn’t comply. At other times, Junior is trying his best but has a diagnosed or undiagnosed learning disability. (Four of my Asian students in the last 2 years alone have been so afflicted.) Such students work EXTREMELY hard, yet there is a ceiling of performance (same as for Caucasian LD kids). Finally, just as with many Caucasian students, many Asian students, despite working hard, are not in the category of ‘effortless’ intellectual achievement that the cream of the crop is. IOW, many hard-working students of all races, nationalities, and ethnicities, will never achieve what someone better endowed will achieve with the same work or even less work.
There is a false formula assumed which is that effort = result. The greater the effort, the greater the intellectual product and “therefore” the greater likelihood of admission to an Elite school. The related false formula is that someone with great stats has a great mind. Usually, those with great minds also have great stats, but not always. The Elites are looking for great minds, measured in part by stats but by much else as well. Teacher recs (the content, not just a subjective report that they were “great” or “must have been great”) are one of many other key elements in judging who and who is not a great mind.
“When have I ever said Whites aren’t discriminated? In fact, I argue that Whites should not be discriminated just as Asians shouldn’t be.”
I’m white. I don’t feel discriminated against in college admissions, at all. I can see the difference between “they want to ensure a diversity of different types of people” and “they don’t want more of MY type because they don’t like our kind around here.”
“When have I ever said Whites aren’t discriminated? In fact, I argue that Whites should not be discriminated just as Asians shouldn’t be.”
so how should college admissions be done? There is no way to satisfy you unless it is rack-and-stack by SAT’s, take the top X performers.
Because if you don’t believe that (let’s say) a black student with 3.8/2000 “deserves” admission over an Asian with 4.0/2300 … then it stands to reason that an Asian student with 3.8/2000 doesn’t “deserve” admission over an Asian with 4.0/2300. Which means that you believe it’s all about the stats. What’s your measuring stick for admissions?
^ agree with PG here. I am also white and I feel the same way.
I’m trying, but I can’t recall my brother, who is Chinese, having this belief about being shut out of places because he’s Asian. He majored in art at a good midwestern LAC and enjoys a very successful career today. I think that LAC was his first choice.
Pizzagirl I only asked that the rate of admission for students of similar academic profiles also be similar, not that only the top performers get in. I have never advocated what you state above, it is your lack of comprehension and your bias that have clouded your reading of what I have written.
epiphany Again I have never stated that Asian students are homogeneously excellent! Way to spin the truth.
OHMom Glad you feel that way, but there are Whites who feel discriminated like people of any ethnic group. It is not uncommon to feel that way but do all Whites feel that way, of course not. PG and you clearly took my comments out of context.
Oh I know there are. I won’t be emulating them, though, as I disagree with their premise for grievance.
but we keep trying to explain that at these schools it is NOT just about academic profiles (if by that you mean predominantly stats). The “profile” is more than grades/test scores/rigor in holistic applicant reviews. How can we make that any clearer?
OHmom,
I am white. I have felt discriminated against. But it was not because of the color of my skin.
^ and an academic profile far exceeds stats.
I’m not sure if this is the place, but being white, should I just abstain from marking anything in the race/ethnicity areas on applications? Will leaving it blank negatively affect my chances?