Since when does the color of your skin or your place of birth give you more knowledge or talent or character than someone else? Why the hell does the way I look physically determine who I am as a person? It seems that the moment college admissions see what your race and ethnicity is your chances of being admitted are immediately impacted before they have even seen any other part of your application. I’m a human being for God’s sake! I have rights! I have a mental capacity and opportunity just as great as the same black, white, Hispanic, and Asian version of me. Until we reform the law that states that the admissions committee cannot view your ethnicity, race, income, or name while reviewing your application we will never get rid of racial injustice in college admissions. Give EVERY human being a chance.
Genetic/racial discrimination in the name of diversity is one of the more disgusting aspects of college admissions. It is all predicated on putting humans into different buckets based on race, ethnicity and national origin, and assuming we know something about their character and variation based on this categorization. Moreover, the categories used to define the groups are not only arbitrary but are themselves discriminatory in nature, in that they lump unrelated groups and use the numbers within those groups as measures of progress towards “representativeness.” Consider the OMB definitions used by schools to define the racial categories (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/information_and_regulatory_affairs/re_app-a-update.pdf); this document includes a definition of Asian that actually lumps Indians together with Koreans. What possible justification is there for that? (there is little ancestral relatedness, given that Indians are generally included among “caucasians.” See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/caucasian). People regularly and rightfully point to past discrimination against Jews in admissions (e.g., Karabel’s The Chosen); but if Jew’s were categorized as a race (which they are, according to geneticist Harry Ostrer) in the same arbitrary way that Asians are, they would today be considered a greatly over-represented group, and “Other Whites” a URM at some prominent universities.
The above link was the opening post of a new thread addressed to those who oppose Affirmative Action (what do you think about this?). My new post was quickly removed and relegated to this older thread (???)
Zekesima The video is a sad testament to the inequalities that exist in our schools especially between suburban and inner cities. However there is a difference between Affirmative Action and giving large Racial Preferences to students at elite colleges. For instance, the girl from Harper High who received an “A” in trigonometry at her high school said the algebra at the suburban high was like a different language and was lost. The learning gap is so large that had she continued at that high school, she may not have passed that course let alone get an “A”.
It is nice to believe that the large preferences given by elite colleges are a way to give these URM a hands up, but the result may not turn out the way one would hope. At most elite schools the average achievement gap based upon SAT is about 350-400 points between URM and White/Asians according to Espenshade. It is so large that it will be difficult if not impossible to compete against the average students.
Here is an article about an inner city African American student who was accepted to Berkeley. He struggled to just stay afloat and managed a 2.0 GPA his freshman year because he received an A- in African American studies. This student was salutatorian at his high school. This student was in over his head and might graduate near the bottom of his class.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cal-freshmen-20130816-m-story.html#page=2
To be honest, I think offering disadvantaged kids college admissions to schools they are underqualified for is not going to fix the root problem, which is inequality in the k-12 system. In this case AA has become a guilt offering, and not nearly enough to make up for the injustice done to those the educational system has neglected. I remember one college prof years ago stating that he thought the 1950s Brown v Board of Ed decision was a cop out. The schools were supposed to be separate but EQUAL. Well, since they couldn’t bring themselves to give African Americans the EQUAL, they gave them integration, and said that was just as good as EQUAL. Well, it wasn’t. Now, all we are left with is largely still separate and still unequal.
Zeke There is much truth in what you are saying. I am coming to the conclusion that the powers that be understand what you are saying and have deliberately engineered this system of racial preference to insure that most URM fail so that these disadvantaged students and their families remain disadvantaged for generations to come. It seems to be a clever way to achieve their goal of submission while pacifying the masses who genuinely care about equality.
People must realize that not every college graduate can live the American dream. There just aren’t that many well paying jobs to go around. There has to be some who must do the low paying jobs. This might explain why nearly 25% of all college graduates earn the same an average high school graduate. Care to guess who many of these low earning college graduate are? Yep, you guessed it disadvantaged URMs.
Also might explain why the rich kids are 8 times as likely to graduate college than the poor even though the ratio is only 3:2 for rich go to college versus poor kids. There is a whole thread on this issue here on CC.
“Fisher II” reaches the Supreme Court
http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/02/fisher-ii-reaches-the-court/
Wonder whether SCOTUS will accept Fisher II since the UNC Chapel Hill lawsuit is likely to work its way up.
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/11/lawsuit-calls-unc-admissions-practices-unfair
Anybody has got to be a more compelling victim than Abigail Fisher.
URM students who attend the elite schools graduate at a rate between 90 and 95 %. A lot of the success or failure depend on what resources are available economically and socially.
@mayihelp let me save the peanut gallery the trouble of repeating…
But they start planning to major in STEM which is the hardest bestest only worthwhile thing to major in and drop down to worthless degrees in things like English and Econ, whereas if the more deserving Asian and white students with the high SAT scores had been admitted, they’d all have graduated with Physics and Engineering degrees…so eAA is worthless!!
I think I just summed up like 5 pages of argument from a couple of months ago in one paragraph.
Good lord @OHMomof2 , way to make generalizations. First, STEM is the hardest and as you said “bestest” worthwhile thing to major in, and I will paraphrase, URM’s dumb down to worthless degrees so they shouldn’t have been admitted over white an Asian students who will have worthwhile STEM degree? Do I have that right?
@ga2012mom I’m not really sure if you caught my sarcasm or not so I can’t say if you do have it right, if “it” is paraphrasing what I said.
Yikes, sorry, no I didn’t get the sarcasm! That’s why I hate texting, emails, blogs etc…
I imagine not everyone follows this thread that closely but I did paraphrase an argument put forth by other posters in this thread, albeit with my tongue rather firmly in my cheek.
We go around and around about the same things in this thread so I thought I’d save them the trouble of posting it all again :)]
You summed up your misinterpretation of that argument from late last year. There is nothing wrong with blacks switching majors from STEM to non-STEM; some students from all racial classifications switch majors. After all, interests change, and that’s perfectly normal.
So the issue is not blacks’ switching majors. I repeat: the issue is not blacks’ switching majors. I repeat once more: the issue is not blacks’ switching majors. Rather, the issue is that
- without controlling for high school qualifications, blacks switch **at higher rates** than whites and Asians; and
- controlling for high school qualifications, blacks switch **at the same rates** as whites and Asians.
fabrizio is so right, both my wife and I attended our state IVY from sub par high school situations. Our first couple of semesters were challenging however we adjusted and figured out what we needed to do. It was an adjustment that was not indicative of our aptitude but more of our experiences. Our children who attended or attend similar type institutions have had a much smoother transition. Kudos to institutions who understand that some results are socially and economically driven and that there is a cadre of students who can compete in time but simply have not been armed at the same level. Sometimes the most important thing in a marathon is whether you finish the race.
Oh sorry, I forgot “higher rates” and “controlling for HS qualifications”, LOL.
So what is your explanation for why blacks switch at higher rates than whites and Asians when you don’t control for high school qualifications, but they switch at the same rates when you do control for high school qualifications?
I don’t have one because I don’t think it’s relevant.