"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 7

<p>Asians are considered to be over-represented minorities in college- especially Engineering. Just write down your race, and don’t worry about it. URM status doesn’t suddenly make you a better applicant, it just makes you a more desireable one if you are a good applicant.</p>

<p>Actually, I just checked something out: 5% of the US is asian, and according to the US Census of 2000, there were 36.6 Million african americans (more than double the asians). Those guys are helped through AA.</p>

<p>Why arent the only 3.5 million arab americans helped through AA? i mean, if its cause some of them have bright skin, what about the other arabs who arent so white? its just not fair.</p>

<p>Does being mixed race help in AA?</p>

<p>@Yurtle:Well, I really need it to bump me in. Im trying really hard, its just that Im an international applicant.</p>

<p>What races are benefited under AA?</p>

<p>I’d say in order of most-helped to least-helped:</p>

<p>1) American Indians
2) Pacific Islanders
3) African-Americans
4) Hispanics</p>

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<p>Listen, I’m talking about people in college. High numbers of asian students are going to college- high numbers of African American/Black students are not. Hence, AA. They’re both minorities, but you’ll find that there is a lot of dynamics you won’t see being an international student, but hispanic and black students (and especially Native American students) are going to college in comparably low number to Asians or whites. </p>

<p>Arabs are considered white. Not due to the skin tone - I’m very pale and hispanic - but because that’s how the census works. I don’t think being mixed really helps all that much, but it could.</p>

<p>And like I said, AA won’t push you over on anything. It won’t really ‘help’ you any more than being international will. If your stats/profile is really good, then they may say “Well hey, we’re looking for _____ students this year, and this student is a good fit.” And that might help. But that’s about it. It’s not a magic in, especially if the school isn’t foucsed heavily on diversity and if they don’t practice AA.</p>

<p>As for not fair, that’s a very big debate- should we consider arab students white? What about Hispanics? (They finally decided we were not a race, but an under-represented ethnicity in the US. Cue annoyance on my mother’s behalf while she fills out the census, since she’s not white, but…just mexican/hispanic)</p>

<p>Even if we didn’t count them as white, who’s to say they would be underrepresented in college?</p>

<p>People who (generally) benefit would be Native Americans, Black/African Americans, Hispanic/latino/a , pacific islander, and asian americans. These are the typical minority students in the US. Many people have looked at college enrollment, and decided that Asian-American students are not underenrolled, however.</p>

<p>Personally, as an urm, I think it’s a big mistake to think that AA will really help you a whole heck of a lot. It’s a little nudge, not a big push, generally. (And I ended up ED’ing at a school that doesn’t practice AA, so go figure.)</p>

<p>Thank you Tokenadult!! My grandmother on my mothers side had a tribal enrollment number. We will just have to wait to be “processed”. I was just hoping there was a faster way to do this. Thanks again!!</p>

<p>There’s lots of weirdness in the world and . . .you can spend time getting huffy about this one but it won’t change things (at least not fast enough to do you any good). </p>

<p>Pacific Islander? Guess what, it’s not enough to be born in the Pacific islands. You can be Hispanic or white or Asian and be born on Guam and you are not a Pacific Islander. On the other hand, you can be of Chamorro descent (a Micronesian group) but have been born in San Diego, CA and never have set foot on an island, ever, and still claim Pacific Islander status. </p>

<p>You might do well if you are male and applying to a college that is seeking more males (many are these days). If you are male and think this is an unfair advantage . . . I guess there’s always surgery . . . </p>

<p>Then again, you could just go study and work hard and get in based on your grades and the excellent letters of reference that your teachers write about your grace, generosity and kindness.</p>

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<p>See the FAQ posts (e.g., the thread-opening post in this merged thread) for how colleges ask about student race, the other part of your question. I’m not aware of a college that says it is looking to boost numbers of Arab students, but there may be some in a few parts of the country. I doubt (for example) that the University of Michigan is one of them, being located in a region with many Arab-Americans. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>From another post farther along: </p>

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<p>Oh, well that’s completely different. It’s generally harder to get into most colleges as an international applicant than as a domestic applicant. Diversity is cherished, but people from all over the world are trying to get into good United States colleges in large numbers.</p>

<p>well if my last name is kim or lee what can I do about it… even if it’s optional.</p>

<p>Lee’s actually a great last name to have because there’s no way to tell if your Lee is that of Bruce Lee, Myung-bak Lee, Teng-hui Lee, or Robert E. Lee. Kim not as much.</p>

<p>As tokenadult has stated before, admissions officers are discouraged from guessing ethnicity based on surname. If it really bothers you, you can do what I did: anglicise your surname.</p>

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<p>are you suggesting that you don’t want colleges to find out you’re Asian? I wonder why?</p>

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<p>Hmm, my question of whether it can be anglicised before age 18 is still unanswered. If you don’t change your name legally but merely state it on an application, then what happens when they admit a John Holliday instead of a John Kim?</p>

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<p>I don’t know whether minors can legally change their surnames or whether you have to be an adult in the eyes of the law to do so.</p>

<p>I disagree with people who think it’s not a huge factor.
Consider this…2 people applying to Harvard
African-American - 2400
White or Asian - 2400
I bet the African-American would be taken in a heartbeat, even without super impressive ECs…whereas there are no guarantees for the white/asian</p>

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<p>The trick would be verifying the bet. Applicants to colleges can be rejected for all kinds of reasons, including the simple reason that the entering class of the college has already been filled by other applicants, so it takes very sophisticated work to develop hypotheses about why some applicants are rejected, “other things being equal.” Most colleges don’t publish data that would make it easy to show how much impact applicant race has on admission chances. All an applicant can do, if the applicant feels he or she is in a group that doesn’t enjoy an admission preference with respect to a particular college, is make the very best application that applicant can to that college, and then also apply to OTHER colleges. An applicant who is genuinely well prepared for Harvard will get into other colleges–if the applicant applies to other colleges. (I read a book just yesterday about a scientist who, when he graduated from high school, applied only to Harvard. Lucky for him that he got in.) Apply widely and see what happens. Compare offers on the basis of academic choices and affordability with financial aid after all the offers are in hand. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of you still waiting for admission news from this application season.</p>

<p>^Your advice is true for 99.9% of the people, Token. But please don’t argue that it’s possible for a URM with a 2400 SAT to ever be rejected by Harvard. Given Harvard’s stated emphasis on diversity, which in terms of college admissions means everyone except whites and Asians, I think its completely unfathomable that it would ever reject an URM who scored a 2400 SAT.</p>

<p>^Totally agreed.</p>

<p>How would I know whether or not any one applicant with 2400 is a sure admit at Harvard? (In other words, how would I know what else matters in the application besides that very high set of test scores </p>

<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_composite_cr_m_w.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board; </p>

<p>and the student’s race category? Maybe something else about the application file might still be a basis for denying the applicant admission.)</p>

<p>Another news story: </p>

<p>[Barriers</a> Found to College Degrees for Hispanics - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/education/18hispanic.html]Barriers”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/education/18hispanic.html)</p>

<p>“The trick would be verifying the bet. Applicants to colleges can be rejected for all kinds of reasons, including the simple reason that the entering class of the college has already been filled by other applicants, so it takes very sophisticated work to develop hypotheses about why some applicants are rejected, ‘other things being equal.’”</p>

<p>Great point tokenadult.</p>

<p>^ And I should make clear that when I speak about colleges “denying” applicants, which is what it feels like to the applicants, at the margin it is often simply “choosing to admit other applicants,” with the possibility that if those other applicants hadn’t come forward to apply, one or more of the denied applicants might have got in. Apply where you would like to attend. Apply to ALL the colleges you would like to attend, if any of the colleges you apply to are colleges with low base acceptance rates. Build an application list that includes a “safety” college for you. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/493318-dont-forget-apply-safety-college.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/493318-dont-forget-apply-safety-college.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;