"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 7

Applying to College
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<p>These statements are quoted for disagreement. First of all, the federal definition of which people belong to the American Indian or Alaska Native race category includes the requirement that those persons maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment to other persons of that race. Genetic ancestry is not the whole story in defining who is of the Native American or Alaska Native race category. </p>

<p>Second, it is by no means certain that a blood test or DNA test of any kind can reliably identify who has ancestors who may have been American Indian or Alaska Native persons. I did the expected Google search to look up information on this subject. </p>

<p>A New York Times article </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/us/12genes.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/us/12genes.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>from 2006 reports </p>

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<p>A 2007 article, “Genetic “Markers”–Not a Valid Test of Native Identity,” </p>

<p>[Genetic</a> “Markers”- Not a Valid Test of Native Identity](<a href=“http://www.ipcb.org/publications/briefing_papers/files/identity.html]Genetic”>Genetic "Markers"- Not a Valid Test of Native Identity) </p>

<p>from the Indigenous Peoples Council on Biocolonialism points out that purported genetic tests to show American Indian or Alaska Native ancestry can yield both false positive and false negative results, a fact inherent in the nature of discrete genetic inheritance from multiple ancestors and random mutation. The Wikipedia article on the general subject </p>

<p>[Genealogical</a> DNA test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test]Genealogical”>Genealogical DNA test - Wikipedia) </p>

<p>provides some more details. </p>

<p>Kim TallBear noted in a 2003 article </p>

<p>[Can</a> DNA determine who is American Indian? - Indian Country Today (Lakota Times) | Encyclopedia.com](<a href=“http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-89108712.html]Can”>http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-89108712.html) </p>

<p>reposted elsewhere online </p>

<p>[Can</a> DNA Determine Indian Ancestry?](<a href=“http://www.manataka.org/page267.html]Can”>http://www.manataka.org/page267.html) </p>

<p>that </p>

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<p>Many tribal authorities display a healthy skepticism about such claims regarding genetic tests, but that skepticism is not always matched by the general public–and it’s unclear what college admission offices do with such claims. </p>

<p>A webpage that appears to be from a company in the business of DNA testing </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-facts-about-dna-testing-and-enrollment.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-facts-about-dna-testing-and-enrollment.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>acknowledges </p>

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<p>Researchers specializing in bioethics and anthropology </p>

<p>[Identity</a> and genetic ancestry tracing](<a href=“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC139044/?tool=pubmed]Identity”>Identity and genetic ancestry tracing - PMC) </p>

<p>point out </p>

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<p>Again, what is convincing to a college admission office may not have any basis in either science or the law. It’s not clear how strictly college admission office consideration of self-reported Native American race matches the federal regulations or the latest genetic or anthropological research. Each college applicant is welcome to self-report any fact about the applicant that may show the applicant adds to the diversity and quality of a college class. Each college, within broad legal limits, gets to decide what diversity and other factors make a difference in admission decisions. But it is very unlikely that colleges can, or do, rely solely on mail-order blood tests to make crucial admission decisions at the margin.</p>

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<p>That’s a good question, for which there probably is not a uniform answer. I’ve read that Minnesota has a higher percentage of “transracial” adoptions than any other state in the United States, but I’ve never heard from any of the many adoptive families I know what they say during the college admission process, nor have I heard what colleges say about what they say. </p>

<p>For the specific case of American Indian or Alaska Native persons, the community attachment principle would still be important for categorizing each applicant. </p>

<p>It is possible, yes, for any applicant to decide not to check off any race or ethnicity category at all.</p>

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<p>It’s interesting that CC is merging all (probably quite different) questions about race and admissions into one thread, especially since many of the other questions repeated all too often stay as separate threads. Is this a new development?</p>

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<p>^ It’s about two years old, if that fits your definition of “new.” (I’ve been on CC a lot longer, since years before I became one of the members of the volunteer moderator team, and I can remember a lot of flame wars full of wrong information in previous threads on this subject.)</p>

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<p>Ah, I see. I’ve only recently been back to CC after a long hiatus, so thanks for the clarification.</p>

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<p>A long article from Wikipedia for background information: </p>

<p>[Race</a> (classification of human beings) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)]Race”>Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>Sometimes experience is a useful guide to what happens under one policy or another. (That, by the way, is why it is interesting to look at books like Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study by Thomas Sowell </p>

<p>[Affirmative</a> Action Around the World … - Google Books](<a href=“Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study - Thomas Sowell - Google Books”>Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study - Thomas Sowell - Google Books) </p>

<p>to prompt thought about what kinds of policies have what kinds of track records.)</p>

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<p>Interesting current news story: </p>

<p>[Desmond</a> Tutu’s genome sequenced as part of genetic diversity study | Science | guardian.co.uk](<a href=“http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/feb/17/desmond-tutu-genome-genetic-diversity]Desmond”>Desmond Tutu's genome sequenced as part of genetic diversity study | Genetics | The Guardian)</p>

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<p>I’ll renew the questions I asked in post # 65 above: what have college admission officers been telling you this year about what the college policies are on race or ethnicity as an admission factor? Does this issue regularly get discussed in college information sessions? Do the brochures you receive from colleges mention specifics about this?</p>

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<p>A news article about student graduation rates in different major fields by race or ethnicity: </p>

<p>[News:</a> Graduation Gaps for Science Majors - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/02/17/stem]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/02/17/stem)</p>

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<p>How are CC participants who declined to indicate a race or ethnicity doing so far in this admission season?</p>

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<p>I declined to state my ethnicity for all my grad school applications.</p>

<p>No evidence of any causal relationship between my opting not to answer and my subsequent result, but I have been admitted to a “dream school” that I am almost certain I will attend.</p>

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<p>Congratulations. As an informational question, did most of your graduate school applications involve personal interviews? I get the impression that is quite routine in some fields at some graduate schools, but I don’t know how generally that is done.</p>

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<p>For the schools on my list, almost all of them have a policy of conducting personal interviews on-site for every area of study within their business PhD programs. I’ve heard that Chicago, Duke, and NYU, for example, don’t conduct personal interviews on-site.</p>

<p>My dream school didn’t ask me to come down and visit, but they did call me out of the blue for a phone interview. I was unprepared for it because it was unexpected, but the stars were aligned properly that day, and all my answers came out the way I wanted them to come out.</p>

<p>As I understand it, the faculty in charge of deciding whom to admit don’t really care about what their students “look” like with respect to racial classification. Of the nine marketing PhD students at CMU, six are Asian; and of the nine accounting PhD students there, eight are Chinese! [url=<a href=“http://www.tepper.cmu.edu/doctoral-program/current-doctoral-candidates/index.aspx]Source[/url”>http://www.tepper.cmu.edu/doctoral-program/current-doctoral-candidates/index.aspx]Source[/url</a>]</p>

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<p>Interesting. I was more familiar with accounts from other graduate admission processes mentioned by CC participants. </p>

<p>It’ll be interesting to hear from other readers of this thread how their application season goes.</p>

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<p>[Fairness</a>](<a href=“http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rkw/RKW_FOLDER/Harvard_RKW.pdf]Fairness”>http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~rkw/RKW_FOLDER/Harvard_RKW.pdf) and [reciprocity[/url</a>] are foundational dynamics in human/social interactions. Many of the arguments for and against Afirmative Action are influenced by this dynamic. Science is starting to reveal the brain’s mechanism with these important traits.</p>

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<p>As [previously</a> noted](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063945751-post938.html]previously”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1063945751-post938.html), a deeper understanding of the human condition is a catalyst to change:</p>

<p>[ul][li][E.O</a>. Wilson on Tribalism](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edgO9J-bw4g]E.O”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edgO9J-bw4g) [/li][li][Robert</a> Sapolsky: The uniqueness of humans](<a href=“http://www.ted.com/talks/robert_sapolsky_the_uniqueness_of_humans.html]Robert”>http://www.ted.com/talks/robert_sapolsky_the_uniqueness_of_humans.html)[/li][li][Jonathan</a> Haidt on the moral roots of liberals and conservatives](<a href=“http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html]Jonathan”>http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html)[/li][li][National</a> Geographic: Unmasking Skin – A New Light on Skin Color](<a href=“National Geographic Magazine”>National Geographic Magazine)[/li][li][The</a> Genetic Archaeology of Race](<a href=“http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmtha/is_200104/ai_kepm377621/]The”>http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmtha/is_200104/ai_kepm377621/) [/li][li][DNA</a> Studies Challenge the Meaning of Race](<a href=“http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/282/5389/654?]DNA”>http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/282/5389/654?) [/li][li][How</a>, but Not Why, the Brain Distinguishes Race](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/05/science/05RACE.html?ex=1072155600&en=79a01327a716c1a1&ei=5070]How”>http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/05/science/05RACE.html?ex=1072155600&en=79a01327a716c1a1&ei=5070) [/li][li][Can</a> race be erased? Coalitional computation and social categorization](<a href=“http://www.pnas.org/content/98/26/15387.full]Can”>http://www.pnas.org/content/98/26/15387.full) [/li][li][Is</a> Racism Due to Perceptual Illusions?](<a href=“http://changizi.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2009/09/30/racism-is-due-to-perceptual-illusions/]Is”>Is Racism Due to Perceptual Illusions? | Changizi Blog) [/li][/ul]</p>

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<p>^ </p>

<p>That’s an interesting research finding on deep-seated human notions of fairness. Of course the tough issue in social policy is reconciling possibly contradictory gut-level approaches to how to deal with a complicated problem.</p>

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<p>If you were half black and half white, is it at your discretion to choose either one?</p>

<p>If you were, say, 1/8th black and 7/8ths white, are you still eligible to claim URM status?</p>

<p>I’m neither of the 2 fractional compositions, so pardon my ignorance.</p>

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<p>…If you are 1/8ths of something*, I truly would not claim “urm” status. It’s frankly too close to the old 1/16ths drop of blood rules and it rubs me the wrong way to claim you are black that way…unless you have instense cultural ties to being black, or with your family members who are black, I don’t really feel you should ‘claim it’. That’s esp. true with Native Americans, and which I know because I am technically probably 1/8th native, but have no ties to the tribe I am related to, and would feel like I am only ‘appropriating it’ if I claimed I was Native American.</p>

<p>*In history, europeans and Americans used to call people who were 1/8ths black octoroons, as well as quadroons (1/4), as well as there being people who were called “mulattos” I think this is the reason why it would bother me so much, because it smacks too closely of some ideas perpetuated by colonists insisting anyone who was mixed, even if only marginally so wasn’t “the same”. I’m not saying you can’t be 1/8ths black, or claim being of black descendance, just that it feels like it’s inappropriate to claim you’re only black. But then, I can’t decide for someone else, and ancestry and recognition of it is a tricky thing. </p>

<p>[ <a href=“http://mixedfolks.com/names.htm[/url]”>http://mixedfolks.com/names.htm&lt;/a&gt; For the crazy list of names people have used throughout history…] </p>

<p>That being said, if you’re a halfsie like me, you can claim both or one of the other ethnicities. I have called myself hispanic my whole life but that doesn’t mean I deny being half-white; it just means that on every test or document, I mark down being hispanic. (I do this because my hispanic mother wanted me to, and because I have close ties with that side of my family that I want to honor.) I could, if I so chose, instead mark white, or biracial.</p>

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<p>^But Yurtle, Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race, and most Hispanics are white. If your Hispanic mother is white, you are monoracial. At this time, I don’t think there’s any way on the ComApp or other apps to differentiate between someone who is a white Hispanic, with two Hispanic parents and someone who has a white parent and a Hispanic parent.</p>