<p>You bring up an interesting point. My mom’s friend knows a girl who got into Yale by claiming that she was a URM (don’t remember exactly which one she chose) even though she was completely white and got accepted. I don’t know if they can rescind admission for lying like that, but either way, it’s incredibly dishonest.</p>
<p>What I mean is, I don’t want colleges to expect any more of me just because I’m asian.</p>
<p>@ Collegehappy- That is completely dishonest and VERY offensive. You should have reported her if you were sure she lied on her application. </p>
<p>@ Seahawk- Again you’re wrong. If Asians were penalized, they wouldn’t be so ridiculously overrepresented at all the Nations highest ranked institutions. If you, as an Asian, offer a College something it WANTS then they’ll ACCEPT you. But if you are virtually indistinguishably from all the other Asians that applied…you’ll probably be denied admission.</p>
<p>People on this forum seem to have a ridiculous sense of entitlement. Just because you have certain scores that doesn’t mean you’re the type of individual the College is seeking.</p>
<p>I know I have a bit of that problem. I’m between 1/3 and 1/4 Native American, but I am the most lily white person you shall ever see. I’m documented and everything, but even my interviewer was like “there’s no way your NA”… </p>
<p>I most have gotten all the recessive genes as my whole family is dark</p>
<p>EDIT; I hate AA debates, but I’m a low income URM. I think we do need the advantages…we have alot more to overcome</p>
<p>Yeah, that upper-middle class black kid with doctor parents need all the advantages he can get. AA is flawed in that it considers race over economic factors. I’m fine with giving kids from the ghetto a little extra push.</p>
<p>"You bring up an interesting point. My mom’s friend knows a girl who got into Yale by claiming that she was a URM (don’t remember exactly which one she chose) even though she was completely white and got accepted. "</p>
<p>There have been many posts claiming they knew people who did similar things. I often wonder, however, whether the the applicants may have really been URMs. I know people who are registered with tribes who look white, but really are Native American.</p>
<p>I know people with African American ancestry – and who have always considered themselves proud African Americans – who have white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. Historically, in parts of the U.S., if one had even one drop of African ancestry, one was considered to be black, and was treated accordingly. </p>
<p>Also, “Hispanic” is an ethnicity, not a race. One can be any race and be Hispanic. There are plenty of Hispanics – including people from Mexico, Cuba, and Puerto Rico who have white skin and straight blond or red hair.</p>
<p>People may be Hispanic, African American, Native American and have first and last names that are European, nonHispanic.</p>
<p>^^I wish I could post a picture. I’m just like you said. I’m a redhead with green eyes and the WHITEST SKIN EVER…and I’m Native American…</p>
<p>I recently reconnected with a close friend from high school on facebook. There was a picture of our “Black Awareness” club. Someone commented she was the “lone White girl”. I was like “what? She’s White”? In retrospect, she looked white but I never thought of her that way. Turns out she was 1/2 Black", if whatever that means.</p>
<p>Another “bestie” was Puerto Rican. Darker than me. One of sixteen sibs, some of whom where blond and blue eyed.</p>
<p>@ akman159</p>
<p>Yea, more often than not that “black kid” grew up in a single parent home, went to an underfunded school, is probably the first person in his family to graduate high school, let alone go to college, and generally led an underprivileged existence for most of his life simply because he wasn’t lucky enough to be born into a White household, like yours. You probably can never appreciate the hardships Black kids go through in this country because your busy enjoying life in White suburbia, let me guess you’re on crew? You also fail to realize that Colleges take into consideration an applicants family background, and URMs from privileged backgrounds don’t benefit from AA much, if at all.</p>
<p>You also fail to demonize all the rich White kids who get into the top schools simply because their parents went there, or because daddy was able to make a large donation right around admissions time. Or all the White kids who got into their top choice because their Granddaddy works in the _____ Department or was old boarding school pals with the Director of Admissions. Or are you so hateful towards Blacks that you attack the small few who manage to work through adversity and hardship and somehow manage to make their way to the Nations highest institutions of learning?</p>
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<p>Okay, let’s get this nitty-gritty. Race is not biological. Race is a social construct of identification, power, unity, and similarities. </p>
<p>
- [Race</a> As A Social Construct Anthropology.net](<a href=“http://anthropology.net/2008/10/01/race-as-a-social-construct/]Race”>http://anthropology.net/2008/10/01/race-as-a-social-construct/) </p>
<p>This sort of view is widely accepted by biologists and anthropologists:</p>
<p>
- [AAA</a> Statement on “Race”](<a href=“http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm]AAA”>http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm) & [RACE</a> - Are We So Different? :: A Project of the American Anthroplogical Association](<a href=“http://www.understandingrace.org/home.html]RACE”>http://www.understandingrace.org/home.html)</p>
<p>However, since people have ‘created’ in their minds, race, racism does exist. Italians and Jews are now considered white, true, and they weren’t before- but the difference is that they were not actually enslaved like black denizens of the united states, and they weren’t raped or lynched or given blankets infected with small pox, and told to march hundreds of miles, and they weren’t killed in the search for gold, and they aren’t still threatened with nooses in the library like in UCSD just a few days ago, and they aren’t called a litany of horrible words on a daily basis (I don’t know why middle-eastern is white, but I suspect it’s because they’re closer to the caucaus mountains- where the term caucasian comes from- than any english-american is or has been), they’re not called “alien” or “those illegals” they aren’t systematically ranked as mulatto or what have you, and nowadays, yes, anti-semitism exists, but it’s not quite the same discrimination as friends comforting me that I’m “one of the ‘good’ mexicans” because I’m pale and well-spoken in my English, and because I’m not ‘frightening’, because I notice when white friends flinch as a man who looks like my uncle walks down the street, and I don’t know many italians nowadays who are yelled at to “go back home” [presumably across the border, though my family is home]. I say that being hispanic isn’t always white, because in the 60’s my grandfather was in the military, and used a colored waterfountain in Georgia because he wasn’t white, and he wasn’t allowed to sit in the front of the buses. </p>
<p>Jewish people, Italian people, Irish, etc in America “became white” because that meant they were ‘part of the group’ in power. It gave them the opportunity to have the power too, and discriminate against the Chinese immigrants and the Japanese immigrants, and the mexican people who were already there, or the Native Americans, or the blacks. When they became white, they were able to feel safe, and empowered. Tim Wise says it quite well: [YouTube</a> - Tim Wise: On White Privilege (Clip)](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc) Those people becoming white was all about divide and conquering the poor, and working class. </p>
<p>I don’t want to “become white” to gain equality. I want my race, and other minority races to be just as valid as “whiteness”. If my family has to become “white” in order to be equal, then they’re not equal, they’re being seen as inferior to start with by virtue of having to become white in order to be considered on the same ‘level’. </p>
<p>Race is a social construct, sure. It doesn’t have to be a bad one. It’s a way to connect with culture and family and the world. Seeing race, or being of a race is not the problem. Refusing to see how people can be negatively affected by other people’s views on race is the problem. “Becoming white” to avoid harassment and discrimination isn’t a sign of progress, it’s a problem. If someone is white hispanic, they can be white hispanic. But there are plenty of Mexicans who aren’t, and don’t consider themselves to be white, and they have valid reasons not to. They don’t need to be white.</p>
<p>Many colleges claim that their intention is to build a diverse class because in a diverse class students will be better prepared for life and all will ultimately benefit from attendance in a diverse community. Is this true?
What do you think?:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/study-shows-ucla-s-diversity-helps-84338.aspx[/url]”>http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/study-shows-ucla-s-diversity-helps-84338.aspx</a></p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/study-shows-ucla-s-diversity-helps-84338.aspx[/url]”>http://www.today.ucla.edu/portal/ut/study-shows-ucla-s-diversity-helps-84338.aspx</a></p>
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<p><a href=“http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4207.html[/url]”>http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4207.html</a></p>
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<p><a href=“diversityweb.org”>http://www.diversityweb.org/digest/w97/research.html</a></p>
<p>
<a href=“Sorry! That Page Cannot Be Found”>http://www.asha.org/practice/multicultural/recruit/litreview.htm</a></p>
<p>Glad you asked. There are several studies done on it, all pointing to the benefits of diversity for all involved. There are even studies that show that many minority students who get in under AA do very well, and succeed once given the chance and help.</p>
<p><a href=“(Audrey%20Light%20and%20Wayne%20Strayer%20(2002),%20“From%20Bakke%20to%20Hopwood:%20Does%20Race%20Affect%20College%20Attendance%20and%20Completion?”%20Review%20of%20Economics%20and%20Statistics,%20p.%2034.)”>quote</a> In their later study, Light and Strayer conclude that the data is “consistent with the notion that** racial preferences in college admissions boost minorities’ chances of attending college and that retention programs directed at minority students subsequently enhance their chances of earning a degree.”**</p>
<p>A third, more recent study, by Sigal Alon of Tel Aviv University and Malta Tienda of Princeton, ((Sigal Alon and Malta Tienda (2005), “Assessing the ‘Mismatch’ Hypothesis:Differences in College Graduation Rates by Institutional Selectivity,” Sociology of Education, Vol. 78 (October): 294-315.)) uses a more thorough methodology than either Light and Strayer or The Shape of The River (among many technical improvements, their analysis includes asians and hispanic students as well as black and white students). Alon and Tienda conclude:</p>
<pre><code> “…**Our results are consistent with claims that minority students thrive at selective postsecondary institutions, despite their disadvantaged starting lines **(Bowen and Bok 1998; Massey et al. 2003). Minority students’ likelihood of graduation increases as the selectivity of the institution attended rises. Our findings, based on three data sets and several analytical methods, suggest that the mismatch hypothesis is empirically groundless for black and Hispanic (as well as for white and Asian) students who attended college during the 1980s and early 1990s. On the basis of the robust evidence we presented, we conclude that affirmative action practices both broaden educational opportunities for minority students and enable minority students to realize their full potential.”
</code></pre>
<p>These findings clearly demonstrate the advantages that are associated with attending a more-selective institution and call for future research to identify the mechanisms that produce such an advantage.
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<p><a href=“http://creativedestruction.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2006/11/26/affirmative-action-doesnt-increase-minority-drop-out-rates-also-a-cato-institute-report-is-less-than-honest-theres-a-shocker/[/url]”>http://creativedestruction.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2006/11/26/affirmative-action-doesnt-increase-minority-drop-out-rates-also-a-cato-institute-report-is-less-than-honest-theres-a-shocker/</a> - note, not my blog. I don’t know whose it is.</p>
<p>All that is swell, but you have to remember that most black kids who are accepted into these institutions are from immigrant families from the Caribbean and such. They’re not actually African American in the sense of the word. I’m done arguing.</p>
<p>“I recently reconnected with a close friend from high school on facebook. There was a picture of our “Black Awareness” club. Someone commented she was the “lone white girl”. I was like “what? She’s white”? In retrospect, she looked white but I never thought of her that way.”</p>
<p>Maybe she was black.</p>
<p>I saw a friend’s picture on Facebook, and she looked like the only Asian woman with a group of black women. I said, “I always knew you were a sister.”</p>
<p>It ended up that she is – biracial–Japanese and black, and considers herself African-American.</p>
<p>When my mom (black) was a staff member at a LAC, a student used to come in a lot a engage in conversations about his concerns about his “people.”</p>
<p>My mom thought he was Jewish. Months later, he spoke a little more specifically, and she realized that he is African American. He was bi-racial – white French-Canadian mother, light skinned African American father, but always identified with being African American and became the head of the Black Students Union at his campus.</p>
<p>Then, there was the “white” woman with straight blond hair, blue eyes whom I always would see at National Association of Black Journalists national events. I always wondered why she was there. I found out she was head of the NABJ chapter of a major city, and, yes, was a very proud African American. </p>
<p>Then, there are the “white” people whom I thought were black or Hispanic or some other ethnicity or race, but that’s another story…</p>
<p>“Maybe she was black.”
Of course she was, in my eyes. It was fascinating to think other people saw her as white.</p>
<p>Similarly, there where about 5 kids in my otherwise all-Black appearing elementary school, that I always thought of as " ike me", but as an adult, I look at their pictures and say " hey! they look White!!" Never noticed!</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Aww, the heat becoming unbearable? I love how people spout ignorance on the internet but they flee once they are called out for it. And oh, let me guess now you think the Dominicans are out to steal your seats? </p>
<p>If White kids from the suburbs demonstrate to the Colleges that they will CONTRIBUTE something the College wants, then they’ll be accepted. If they don’t, they will be rejected. Just because you’ve been rejected from a College doesn’t mean that your seat was stolen by someone, nor does it give you the right to attack an entire community of people and make bigoted remarks about the names we choose to give our children. What, would you prefer they had White names like was imposed on their ancestors when they were forcefully brought here?</p>
<p>@ romulus</p>
<p>what you just said pretty much makes you my hero :-P</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Thanks, just speaking the truth.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, because I’m all for URMs getting their fair chances.</p>
<p>However, to loosely quote a Chris Rock moment:</p>
<p>Very often, URMs get in with GPAs below the school’s avg GPA; if a white/asian applicant had the same GPA, they’d probably be rejected. Same thing with SAT scores.</p>
<p>Basically, if an URM scores better or as well as a white/asian applicant, then he or she should be admitted. It is simply not fair to make the bar lower for URMs.</p>
<p>You bring up socioeconomic obstacles such as underfunded schools and single parent households. Yes, they are present more often than not; they are not always present.</p>
<p>It should be considered on an individual basis instead of assuming that the URM applicant comes from a difficult setting.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, white/asian applicants can very well come from the same socioeconomic backgrounds as the purported majority of URMs.</p>
<p>To cite a fairly famous Supreme Court case, consider Regents of the University of California vs Bakke.</p>
<p>Basically, UC had a provision under which to admit the disadvantaged, whose lower quantifiable statistics were ascribed to their economic/educational disadvantages.</p>
<p>How is it then that all the applicants admitted that one year were of minority status, with all the white applicants who were equally disadvantaged or even more so failing to gain admission?</p>
<p>Something to think about.</p>
<p>I’m not white, so don’t accuse me of blindly knocking minority groups.</p>
<p>Instead of taking into consideration URM statuses, colleges(and employers) should look at those socioeconomic disadvantages that many–but not all–URMs claim to be from.</p>
<p>Also, you said that if a college wants you, they’ll accept you. That’s true. You also said that if your an Asian who was like every other Asian applicant, then you’ll get rejected?</p>
<p>See the logic flaw there? What defines an Asian applicant? 4.0s, 2350+, plays 50 instruments and has a million hours of volunteer service logged at his or her local hospital?</p>
<p>If there were a mold, and, if your statement of “if you’re like everyone else,” you would get rejected were true, then the only Asians that would be accepted would be those who did nothing but sleep around on couches. Extreme but proves a point.</p>
<p>While there are definitely Hispanic surnames, there aren’t really very many Black or Native American surnames…I can’t even think of one, to be honest, because “Freeman” and “Shortman” (I <3 my small-of-stature Native American ancestors) are both originally European last names.</p>
<p>CC kids need a heaping dose of reality. Yeah, sure AA is a factor, but it is ONLY a factor. No matter what, they’re looking for what you can contribute to a campus community. Even if you’re low-income and URM, if you seem to be a boring person, you won’t be admitted. Regardless of race. White kids get admitted with 3.5s/lower than average test scores as well, but you don’t hear anyone complaining about that. </p>
<p>Top schools are looking for people that’ll truly do something significant, that are open to many different people, can think of long-term solutions for today’s problems. Persistence. Determination. People who have and can provide perspective. </p>
<p>So stop thinking in two-dimensional terms of race and think about the person. Every applicant is an individual. You will never understand the struggles a kid from the PJs had to go through to get where he is. Or someone from a rural, depressed farming community, to break the traditional “disadvantaged” mold. But one day, you will come face to face with these individuals, so be ready for that.</p>
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<p>How ironic that you are criticizing people for being racially biased against African-Americans.</p>
<p>Anyways, AA doesn’t even assuage racial prejudices, it supports them.</p>