"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 9

<p><a href=“%5Burl=%5D#54%5B/url%5D”>quote</a> Race in Admissions? How big of an [e]ffect does it have?..

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<p>[Questions</a> for The Times’s Adam Liptak on the Future of Affirmative Action](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/liptak-qa/]Questions”>Questions for The Times's Adam Liptak on the Future of Affirmative Action - The New York Times):

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<p>[Affirmative</a> Action Bans in Universities: Who Gains?](<a href=“http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/WhoBenefitsfromAffirmativeActionsBaninUniversities.htm]Affirmative”>http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/WhoBenefitsfromAffirmativeActionsBaninUniversities.htm):

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<p>Hm. So just about doubles your chance, I guess. Any info on Northeast schools?</p>

<p>wannabe252, the one thing I would caution about gauging chances from the applicant’s self-reported ethnicity is that usually colleges aren’t generous in providing independent researchers with ALL the data needed to make inferences of that kind. It’s not usually clear how the percentages of admitted students (which, I hope we all remember, may differ quite a bit from the percentages of ENROLLED students) differ from the percentages of applicants by race or ethnicity category at this or that college. Colleges all try to signal that they are welcoming and not off-putting to academically prepared young people of all backgrounds, but some colleges succeed better at recruiting students of one background or another than some other colleges. Current policies APPEAR, on the best available evidence, to provide a systematic preference for applicants from some race categories that is substantially helpful to some applicants, but as Fabrizio correctly pointed out, many colleges admit essentially all applicants, or at least almost all applicants who have a high school diploma in a “college-preparatory” high school curriculum, and some of the most desired colleges reject applicants from all possible race categories. </p>

<p>Good luck in your applications.</p>

<p>“Hm. So just about doubles your chance, I guess. Any info on Northeast schools?”</p>

<p>How did you arrive at that? Based on a decrease of fifty percent at two UC’s?</p>

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<p>Then racial preferences seem pointless, at the very least for the school-in-question.</p>

<p>And away we go!</p>

<p>I found this part to be really interesting as well.</p>

<p>"It’s no surprise to analysts that Asian Americans have benefitted from an affirmative action ban, as many predicted they would before the passing of such legislation. At the same time, however, analysts predicted that white enrollment would grow. Turns out that’s not the case.</p>

<p>After affirmative action’s disappearance in California, Texas and Florida, the percentage of white students at public universities there declined. University of California, San Diego (UCSD), experienced the largest drop in white enrollment among the universities examined in California, Texas and Florida. There, the portion of first-year white students plummeted from 56.9% in 1990 to 33.3% in 2005.</p>

<p>The authors of the study cite a drop in white residency in those regions as a major reason for the decline. But they also note, “For those who campaigned for the elimination of affirmative action in the belief that it would advantage the admission of white students, the trend…can hardly be satisfying.”</p>

<p>Perhaps Caucasians are also getting a leg up from affirmative action?</p>

<p>Also i feel that affirmative action should be eliminated for all immigrants including those of Mexican, Latin American, Caribbean and African origin. It was designed to help black people who are trapped in generational poverty, are born into broken families and have poor educational opportunities.</p>

<p>“affirmative action … It was designed to help black people who are trapped in generational poverty, are born into broken families and have poor educational opportunities.”</p>

<p>Source please!</p>

<p>Yes…it’s sad…it’s Saturday night, and look where I am…</p>

<p>All this does is reinforce the idea that Affirmative Action hurts only the Asians and helps everyone else.</p>

<p>"The Price of Ending Affirmative Action in Higher Ed</p>

<p>What’s the cost of ending race-based preferences in college admissions? Less diverse college campuses, a lack of different viewpoints in academia and a less competitive workforce. "</p>

<p>All of this is possible at the expense of excluding obviously qualified Asian applicants (they would have been accepted in the absence of Affirmative action).</p>

<p>“affirmative action … It was designed to help black people who are trapped in generational poverty, are born into broken families and have poor educational opportunities.”</p>

<p>So including details like these help your app then?</p>

<p>This is the most blatant racism towards Asian shown by an affirmative action supporter ever.</p>

<p>Apparently asians cause few different views in academia and cause a less competent workforce.</p>

<p>It’s more complex than all that. Gotta remember, most get their “info” from media sources- and hype sells, fear sells. And, too many of us settle for easy stereotypes. The black kid doomed to fail, the beleaguered Asian-American, just trying to get the level of education he or she deserves. The high-performing friend of a neighbor’s cousin, who got bumped. </p>

<p>The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy opens: Affirmative action” means positive steps taken to increase the representation of women and minorities in areas of employment, education, and business from which they have been historically excluded. When those steps involve preferential selection—selection on the basis of race, gender, or ethnicity—affirmative action generates intense controversy.</p>

<p>Colleges expand this to include geographic diversity, first-gens and a host of qualities that may be needed on their campuses. </p>

<p>According to LF (me,) critical thinking means not accepting your first gut reaction to something, applying a few brain cells, weighing. </p>

<p>Btw, wannabe: here are no magic formulas. If you are from the quoted category, let your GC rave about how you overcame. Let your ECs, awards, stats shine for you and write a great essay that makes adcoms like you, see your strengths, not feel sad for you. You might benefit from your own thread on this.</p>

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<p>So you’re saying that anyone who thinks critically about racial preferences should agree with you?</p>

<p>Fabrizzzio, I have never stated my position on AA, yea or nay. I have said I am blown away by the academic and EC accomplishments of many URMs and others. </p>

<p>Not every kid who “thinks” he is qualified or that his essays and LoRs are super, will get in. No one but adcoms actually know why one kid was admitted and another was not. To blame another group of people, to suggest that they are uniformly without merit, is uninformed- even self-serving; to blame it on a “racial” or ethnic identity can be subtle racism. Not critical thinking. How does one Asian American kid explain his reject, when another Asian kid got an admit?</p>

<p>I wonder why no one takes the same stand against geographic diversity- why isn’t there griping that the same-quality kid from Wyoming may get an extra minute’s attention (at an Ivy) than the nth (x100 or more) same-stats applicant from California? Asian kid or white kid. Or kid from any top hs that sends in dozens to multiple dozens of apps. If there is an assumption that the WY kid is white or stellar…but a URM kid can’t possibly be truly qualified…what does that say about prejudice?</p>

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<p>Straw man, anyone? I challenge you to find a single post, even from a disgruntled CC’er disappointed that he will not be attending his “dream school,” stating that so-called “underrepresented” minorities are UNIFORMLY WITHOUT MERIT.</p>

<p>Because that’s not “subtle racism”; that’s racism, period.</p>

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<p>Maybe because geographic diversity doesn’t overtly consider racial classification?</p>

<p>^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^ Everyone is welcome to participate here, as long as they follow the terms of service, but my general observation about discussions of all issues in all places is that comments with the words “you” or “they” can often benefit from rewriting, and speculation about other people’s opinions or motivations are rarely helpful for advancing the conversation. On my part, I assume I don’t know why other people think the way they think, and invite participants here to bring up each participant’s OWN reasons for supporting one policy or another, without speculating about other people’s reasons for supporting one policy or another. </p>

<p>Before I edit a post farther upthread with the same link I post here, I invite everyone’s attention to a bibliography posted in Wikipedia userspace </p>

<p>[User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations]User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations”>User:WeijiBaikeBianji/AnthropologyHumanBiologyRaceCitations - Wikipedia) </p>

<p>with quite a few citations to the HUGE literature on various related issues. (Most of this literature, alas, is not reflected in any of the Wikipedia articles on those issues.) Plenty of trees have been felled to provide the paper for writing about these ever-contentious issues. I hope our use of electrons here promotes thoughtful discussion and checking better sources for facts.</p>

<p>That looks like a great resource! Thanks!</p>

<p>token, thanks for the great link in #76- lots of great stuff there.</p>

<p>And I so appreciate your putting all this together for CC.</p>

<p>Affirmative action is by far one of the most blatant examples of racism towards asians in America.</p>

<p>Please see the featured article for details: <a href=“http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/WhoBenefitsfromAffirmativeActionsBaninUniversities.htm[/url]”>http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/WhoBenefitsfromAffirmativeActionsBaninUniversities.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<ol>
<li><p>Many claim that affirmative action increase diversity of ideas in Academia and promotes a competent workforce. They also cite that the lack of affirmative action favors Asian Americans. They directly suggests that Asian Americans do NOT have innovative ideas in Academia and are incompetent in the workforce.</p></li>
<li><p>Affirmative Action will help raise the level of Hispanics and Black students in institutions. Again, all of this is possible because Affirmative Action effectively kick out BETTER QUALIFIED Asian American students; these Asians would have been accepted in the absence of Affirmative Action.</p></li>
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<p>We all know that the idea that Asians do not contribute in Academia or are incompetent professionals is simply false. Asian Americans have the highest income and college degree rates out of any racial group in America.</p>

<p>Someone please tell me why Asian Americans should support such examples of racism. Please give a rational argument why we should not marshall considerable amounts of resources lobbying for the abolition of Affirmative Action. It is not hard; victories in California and Florida show that it is possible.</p>

<p>good luck…</p>