"Race" in College Admissions FAQ & Discussion 3

<p><a href="%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061852339-post20.html%5D#20%5B/url%5D"&gt;quote&lt;/a> Remarks</a> as Prepared for Delivery by Attorney General Eric Holder at the Department of Justice African American History Month Program (2009-02-18)

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...Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards...

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<p>It was cowardly and convenient for the Attorney General nominee to not share his admonition, contempt, and disdain for the people of the United States during his confirmation process.</p>

<p>The Attorney General doesn't have contempt and disdain for the American people. If he did, he wouldn't want to be Attorney General. He has contempt and disdain for the way this country has handled issues of racial/ethnic disparities in the past and in the present. If you actually read his words, he says "in things racial we have always been...a nation of cowards." Not, "Americans suck."</p>

<p>The Attorney General made a good suggestion when he said, </p>

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<p>I certainly think so, which is why this thread is here. </p>

<p>He went on to say, </p>

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This debate can, and should, be nuanced, principled and spirited.

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<p>I would like to see his example in further discussion before the press of nuanced, principled, and spirited debate on the controversial subject of affirmative action. First of all, I'd like to see him define the term "affirmative action," as I get the impression that the current usage of that term is much different from the usage of President John F. Kennedy, who coined the term for an executive order about hiring for the federal government.</p>

<p>An interesting commentary about another aspect of university practices, besides undergraduate admission. </p>

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<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/opinion/20dungy.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/opinion/20dungy.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Or what's the punishment?</p>

<p>And what percentage Asian/Hispanic/Black/[insert race here] do you have to be in order to be "considered" under that bracket?</p>

<p>You were born with an advantage because you're white. Don't even think about giving yourself an additional advantage.</p>

<p>logicwarrior,
It seems as if you are against whites. In a previous post I believe you knocked me because I said it was unfair my sister's mexican friend got better aid despite dismal stats. Just because a person is born white doesn't mean they are given an advantage. If an African American is born into a family making over $200k and a white student is born into a family making just over $50k, who has an advantage? Minorities have an advantage in the college admissions process because colleges accept minorities for diversity. Some schools even lower their standards so they can admit more minority students. It is wrong for a white person to play a minority, but there is no first advantage given.</p>

<p>Race is not the only factor determining one's situation in life. There's economic status, gender, and place of birth to name a few. But I have nothing against whites, I just recognize that whites are born with a higher status in this country.</p>

<p>No you cannot. Now get out.</p>

<p>What percentage do you have to be? If you're 25% does that count?</p>

<p>You can say anything that you want as long as you remember that intentional misrepresentation is grounds for having your admission rescinded or your degree rescinded should they find out after you graduate.</p>

<p>You shouldn't lie on your application. Grow a backbone. Do what is right because it is right. Period. Talk to the (former) Illinois governor, Treasury Sec., Tom Daschle. etc., etc.,</p>

<p>Why would you even think about cheating? Do you realize that if you cheat and get a spot, then someone else who didn't cheat lost the spot. That could be your son one day. </p>

<p>It will catch up with you some day. Remember the coach of Notre Dame (Fired after 1 week because they found out that he lied about his degree 30 yrs prior) O'Leary-don't remember his first name. Director of admissions for MIT(!) fired after 20+ yrs when they discovered she lied on her application.</p>

<p>Whatever your opinion is on affirmative action: people who lie about their stats, race, etc. should be denied admission or kicked out when it is discovered even if it;'s one semester before they graduate.</p>

<p>Try being admitted on your actual merits (and ethnicity), not a fabricated existence. Your life will be better in the long run. You also might set an example for your kids in the future.</p>

<p>OK, don't lie outright. If you're white, sorry, you're white. I'm in the same boat. I think it sucks that URMs get priority over me, but whatever that's not a discussion for this board.</p>

<p>For the question about what percent you have to be though, that's a more complicated issue. Since your ethnicity/race/[insert politically correct term here] is self-reported on the Common App, you can identify as you like. If you are a quarter Native American and you identify as that, I think you could check that off. It's a part of your heritage. That's what I've heard at least, anyone know if it's true.</p>

<p>And, um, yeah...no college is going to rescind your degree after you graduate just because they figured out that you lied about being a URM. Obviously they would notice when you went to school there, right?</p>

<p>Don't lie. My view is if you identify with it, then you can mark it.</p>

<p>For example, I have a friend who's like 1/4 or so Latina, but she's never identified as such, only white, so she put white on all her apps.</p>

<p>A college cannot rescind your degree after you earn it. They can expell you from school for certain rules violations. It would have to be written in the rules up front that lying about ethnicity, EC's etc. to gain an unfair edge (cheating) could be punished by expulsion. Obviously if you have someone else take your SAT and they score a 2400 and you use that score as your own, when (if) it is discovered, the school does have some recourse.</p>

<p>Hey, just to say, I do NOT plan to do this, I was just curious!!! I refuse to lie on my app!</p>

<p>I just heard rumors about this one girl from my school who NO ONE thought would get into Princeton. When she did, people said that she lied and said she was Hispanic on her app. I don't know if it's true, but I'm just curious as to whether she could even be punished for this.</p>

<p>And how would a college find out anyway?</p>

<p>When I was named a Hispanic Merit Scholar, they did confirm with my school that I was Hispanic. My guidance counselor asked me where my mother was from to confirm. I think I was only asked straight out because she remembered my mother who does look Hispanic.
I guess the school could have lied if they wanted to, but I doubt they would have. I also doubt I would have been asked if I didn't have such a good relationship with my guidance counselor.</p>

<p>In some states, very soon, you may well be a real minority because of the influx of latinos. Just the facts of the matter, not a racial comment.</p>

<p>um, lying on your app is extremely low class. good luck w/ that tho...because when they meet you and you turn out to be asian or white...u might have a few punishments...so to speak ;)</p>

<p>I don't think there are any hard and fast rules for what percentage minority you need to be. I know a girl who is 1/8 black, 1/8 Native American and 3/4 caucasian and she self-identified as both black and Native American on her college application. I would say that in day to day life she considers herself white and has never experienced any hardship or disadvantage from being a "minority." However, you can't dispute that she is partially black and Native American, so what she wrote on her application was true.</p>