<p>I too am Native American, and have always identified with all aspects of my heritage. Still, enrolling in my tribe was never a high priority for me as my family no longer lives in the geographic area of the tribe. I finally enrolled earlier this year, and recently I noticed that the common app has a place for “date of enrollment.” Now I am kind of worried that if I check Native American, admissions officers will look at my enrollment date and think that I only enrolled to benefit from AA. Would I be better off not mentioning the NA portion of my heritage?</p>
<p>Fabrizio understood me right. My relative went to a public school where the rich girls of an elite private school used to come to spend a year, getting to know how “plebeians” operate. She found them polite but distant, making it quite clear they were not there to make friends. (For those who hope to make connections there, forewarned is forearmed).</p>
<p>I never said Harvard purposely reject all the poor. A %tage of the poor do get in(the incident between Yale and the Black Panthers probably played a role here) but I suspect the numbers are strictly managed. Knowing if Pell Grant recipients change much from year to year will tell us that. </p>
<p>To say that Harvard exist to train the next generation of leaders is a half truth. I know of no psychological inventory that has the validity and reliability to come close to do the job. What kind of training do these admission officers have that give them the ability to look at an 18 year old’s application and be able to tell if he/she will be a future leader? You know how much governments and corporations will pay for that kind of insight? If such science is available, why have I not seen it in scholarly journals? This alone will make a researcher’s career.</p>
<p>One can be a cynic and say that accepting the scions of the rich, famous and powerful is the best guarantee of getting the future leaders. I once talked to a French gentleman who was telling me of a certain school in France that caters to the rich, famous, and powerful from around the world. When questioned about the fairness of it all, his answer was brilliantly simple: “Since these people will be running the world in the future, don’t you want them to have the best education possible?” </p>
<p>To suggest these institutions accept students on the basis of “ability and record” can not be true. They came right out and say they use “holistic” admission and the Duke study showed how the admitted students vary in quality based, in that specific case, on racial and ethnic lines, and I am not talking about just test scores and GPAs.</p>
<p>I am speechless at the notion that these institutions would prefer a poor candidate over a rich candidate. Folks never heard of “developmental admits”? I even personally know of a case such as this, to Oxford no less, and completely bypassing the admission process too. Look, these institution are popular because “plebeians” want to be with the children of the rich, famous and powerful, hoping no doubt to befriend them and to work for them one day. These institutions know that. Why do they want to harm the reputation that took them so long to establish?</p>
<p>Just as a general moderator’s note to this discussion, I’ll mention that when the new Common Application and other college application forms come out, implementing the federal regulations that take effect for the 2009-2010 admission season, I will open an updated FAQ and discussion thread on this subject.</p>
<p>Old, but…</p>
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<p>Obviously, Albert Einstein wasn’t Jewish, because he didn’t practice Judaism. I wonder why he needed to leave Germany…?</p>
<p>Thing is, there is something called being culturally Jewish, but not something called culturally Asian. People from western China, southern India, Pakistan, and Thailand don’t necessarily have a similar culture just because they’re from the same continent.</p>
<p>I have to agree with the posters who bring up one of the main purposes of the Ivies–to educate our elite classes (irrespective of race). I am in sort of a unique position. I grew up wealthy, but my parents died while I was young, my father having squandered nearly all the money. I made several stupid life decisions, and here I am, in my mid 40s, a lower income single mother. Thus I’ve bridged two worlds. And believe me, they are very different. My rich friends (I have three different friends who live on Park Ave in NYC), think nothing of sending their children to top Manhattan private schools, then sending them off to top Ivies. This latest financial trainwreck is barely hitting them, if at all. Nearly all of them get in to the top schools, not because they’re bright (usually), but because their parents a) pay a lot of money to the school, often in the form of ‘donations’ and/or b) pay the private secondary schools and private tutors TONS of money to get their kids the top grades, including cheating if necessary and c) they are alums and/or have inside connections. It is very standard, believe me. It’s all about connections, honey. Talent means very little, except as a way to get your foot in the door. But once in, you pass the goods to the younger generation. One of the ways is by sending your kids to the schools for the rich. Connections. Look at our nation’s leaders. How many send their children to public schools? I voted for Mr. Obama, but I’ve been rather appalled by the lack of indignation over where he is sending his daughters to school – private schools that are stratospherically out of most of our reaches. Why does he send them to private schools? Connections. Sure, poor people get into Ivies. Token poor people. A handful. And all things being equal, you bet an Ivy will accept a rich student over a poor student. Can one still ‘get ahead’ in America without connections? Yes. But it’s way, way harder than if you do have the connections. Otherwise, our rich and powerful would be sending their kids to our many fine public schools (or moving to the ‘good’ districts), and to our fine public universities. This is one of greatest elephants in our national living room.</p>
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<p>My kids attended a school here in the Great White North that did not have Jewish quotas during the period of time after the War. One student, a Jewish refugee went on to greatness and was incredibly generous with his alma mater. The most generous gifts I can remember are 1) a castle in England and b) a Rembrandt. Any institution would love a alumnus like this, if we can only figure out beforehand who will become both successful and generous. In general, admitting the wealthy is a safer bet, and studies have shown that the legacy families are more supportive of their alma mater that singletons.</p>
<p>I must get back to the Sudirman Cup semi and see what Malaysia can do against the Chinese Armada. Getting hooked on badminton after the Olympics last year…</p>
<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE: </p>
<p>Somehow the recent back and forth has strayed far from the topic of the thread, which makes me wonder if I need to move some posts out to another thread. Take another look at the thread title to remember what the topic is here. </p>
<p>Update: I moved some posts to another thread, since they mostly constituted a private argument that didn’t belong in off-topic position on this thread.</p>
<p>So…how about that race in College Admission?</p>
<p>I’m white, my wife is Asian. In the old days our daughter would have been called “Amerasian.”</p>
<p>As she is a high school junior, we’ve begun visiting schools and taking serious looks at the admission process. Most (all?) of the applications we’ve seen to date <em>do</em> ask about the race of the applicant. None that I’ve seen yet allow choosing BOTH “Caucasian/white” and “Asian/Pacific Islander.”</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>Is there any advantage to choosing one as opposed to the other? Any disadvantage?</p>
<p>Finally, as the rules clearly differ between schools, if anyone has any thoughts regarding the UMass specifically, this is her top choice at the moment.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I assume it wouldn’t make a difference in general, though it may at specific schools. both races are equally screwed in college admissions.</p>
<p>Put white, especially at the more competitive schools, especially if she’s a science/math geek.</p>
<p>
Our exact situation. My son did not disclose any racial information on his apps, and the schools where he applied did not seem to care about that.</p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter!</p>
<p>I can’t believe how quickly she has grown up - our little baby!</p>
<p>She is also our only child and therefore our entire world. We’re so excited about college for her - and proud that she is as excited as she is.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback and the well-wishes!</p>
<p>We’re the same, except opposite; my husband’s white. All of our s’ college choices seem to value diversity so wherever he could he chose to draw attention to this by stating mixed race. I don’t know if this had any effect directly, but he got accepted at all of his choices.</p>
<p>I see the other poster’s point about the Asian math geek stereotype, but I’d hate to think that it really matters.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>In Order of Races you want to be when applying to Colleges:</p>
<p>Native American
Black/African-American
Hispanic American
White American/Caucasian
Asian American</p>
<p>So I would just put undisclosed, or just put white. Doesnt maake much of a difference.</p>
<p>The WSJ reporter who wrote ‘The Price Of Admission’ claims Asians need 50 extra SAT points to be on level ground with white applicants at elite schools.</p>
<p>I don’t see why SAT points make a difference. </p>
<p>Is there truly a difference between a 2350 and 2400? Or 2200 and 2250?</p>
<p>It is true and generally widely known that it is harder to get into top private schools as an Asian rather than a White; but Asians are being prejudiced in general, not in the specific area of SAT scores. SAT scores hardly make a difference in admissions as long as you are in the ball park.</p>
<p>both groups are over represented in private school admissions. </p>
<p>i’d say don’t put anything. Stating your race is optional. if you really want to put something down just put whatever race your daughter identifies with most</p>
<p>torasap:</p>
<p>You are getting some horrible advice in this thread. The short answers are:</p>
<p>a) It varies from college to college</p>
<p>b) Asian American or white are generally speaking going to be in about the same boat.</p>
<p>This whole meme of “needing 50 extra SAT points” is really a misinterpretation of the data. The actual interpretation is that, on average, Asian American applicants tend to have high SAT scores. Well, duh.</p>
<p>I would research particular schools. Swarthmore, for example, has had an acceptance rate for Asian American students considerably higher than the overall rate. I have no idea if this results from a preference or if it simply results from a very strong Asian American applicant pool. I certainly would not hesitate to check the Asian American box at that highly selective college. On the flip side, I’ve seen some colleges where the data suggests there may be an “Asian quota” (max). No way to prove that; maybe Asian Americans just don’t enroll. It could be that the college simply favors other things (sports) over academic admits. I don’t know. If there were a quota, then you would want to check “white” or simply leave the box empty (which will get you counted as white).</p>
<p>At the end of the day, it probably doesn’t much matter. However, you might consider playing it as advantage by finding a school wtih miniscule Asian American enrollment. If you don’t mind a lack of diversity, it could be a way to nail down a good safety.</p>
<p>On a more practical level, your daugther needs to decide how strongly she wants to weight diversity in her college selection. There are pretty wide variations even among seemingly similar colleges.</p>
<p>I’m half-Asian like your daughter. Every application I did allowed me to select both. If your daughter uses the Common App she’ll be able to. I would recommend either doing that or putting Asian because, despite what many will say here, there are plenty of schools that have lower numbers of Asian students who would love to have your daughter. Asians are still considered people of color. I was even invited to minority weekends at several schools because I am part Asian and one school paid for me to fly out there.</p>