<p><a href="%5Burl=http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061874367-post60.html%5D#60%5B/url%5D">quote</a> ...By state law, race is not considered in UC admissions...
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<p>Not if Assembly Member Hernandez has anything to say about it:</p>
<p>California</a> Assemblymember Submits Bill to Dilute Proposition 209</p>
<p>My friend and I were discussing potential colleges to apply to and I was surprised when I hear her name top schools like Stanford and Brown. She is a good student but is not in the top of our class. Her SAT score is around 2000 and her GPA is around 96 on our school's 100 scale. However, she is half white and half Puerto Rican while I am half white and half Chinese. My SAT is a 2280 and my GPA 100.29 (Fist in our class). We both play varsity sports and have volunteer hours, but I have played the piano for 12 years and am in peer leaders, science league, and various other extracurriculars. She is secretary for Junior year student council. I have worked hard throughout high school to achieve the grades I do, and I am wondering who would be more likely to achieve admission to top schools. How much of a factor is race in the decision?</p>
<p>Since affirmative action is not used very often nowadays...</p>
<p>I believe you guys both have great chances at those top schools.</p>
<p>When it comes to diversity however, there's a lot more Asian applicants than Hispanic ones, so it becomes a bit difficult choosing</p>
<p>From what do you base the statement that affirmative action isn't used much nowadays?</p>
<p>Public schools aren't using it that much nowadays.</p>
<p>Many are switching into holistic approaches and such</p>
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How much of a factor is race in the decision?
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<p>Colleges don't publish statistics that allow a firm inference about how much a factor race is in admission decisions. You can choose</a> not to self-identify, and if you do, many</a> colleges will gladly admit you, but it's not at all clear how much the "same" applicant improves chances by being identified with this or that ethnic group. I disagree with the statement that "affirmative action is not used very often nowadays," but other than that many colleges still say they practice affirmative action, it's hard to know how much it influences admission decisions.</p>
<p>I think using a "holistic" approach is simply a legal way to continue using race is admissions.</p>
<p>If you don't say what race you are, will colleges assume that you're white?</p>
<p>I think they will assume more of Asian than white</p>
<p>undefined is like none of the above. If you put that, then they'll assume that you're eskimo or something.</p>
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If you don't say what race you are, will colleges assume that you're white?
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<p>The colleges may admit</a> you without guessing anything, because they are not</a> expected to guess, and they are permitted</a> by federal regulations to report students as "race/ethnicity unknown." </p>
<p>On the other hand, you might be rejected whatever ethnic self-identification you choose. Some colleges are choosy like that. (Some colleges, indeed most colleges, admit nearly all applicants.) Ethnic self-identification is OPTIONAL; that's the law.</p>
<p>Yeah</p>
<p>isn't that to prevent racial chosing and affirmative action?</p>
<p>Token Adult: You have a lot of knowledge on this topic and I am sorry if you have already addressed this question, but blairbear3 raised an interesting point. She is half white and half Chinese. If she wanted to report her status what would she say? I've downloaded some applications just for fun and some say "check one" and others say "check all that apply." If she is applying to a ""check one" school, is she white or Chinese or other? Also, do you have any opinion as to whether top schools look differently at half white/half Asian kids? Do they see them as being different from Asian or white students or are they treated the same? Thanks!</p>
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She is half white and half Chinese. If she wanted to report her status what would she say?
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<p>She has at least two choices. First of all, she can decline to answer the question. The question is optional. A lot of students are admitted to a lot of colleges and officially reported to the federal government as "race/ethnicity unknown." </p>
<p>She could also choose to list any subset of ethnic categories that fit her (which in this case will be "white" and "Asian," with possibly a few colleges having more specific subcategories for either of those federally defined groups). The new federal regulation that takes effect for class of 2010 applicants mandates forms that ask "choose one or more" for students to optionally self-identify by race. The student can not answer at all, or answer with one race, or answer with as many as apply. </p>
<p>My family's tendency is to ignore those questions. We are all human beings here, but in my own immediate family we are not all of the same "race," if one believes the federal categories, as I don't.</p>
<p>Thanks Token. Why do you think colleges include this question in their applications? Why don't they adopt your family's viewpoint?</p>
<p>The federal government requires colleges to ask the question. Sixty years ago there were still a lot of colleges that had explicit racial segregation, and one argument for gathering the data is to keep that from happening again. My impression is that it will help this country move forward from the wrongs of segregation for people in general to be less rather than more race-conscious, but that's a social change that takes time.</p>
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If you don't say what race you are, will colleges assume that you're white?
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That's like asking if you don't put down a class rank (or don't have one), they'll "assume" you're in the top 30% of your class. Leaving it blank simply deletes a data point that potentially could be used in admissions.</p>
<p>"in fact, her mother's maiden name was Hernandez. She was 25% Hispanic (her mom was, obviously, half Hispanic on her father's side) but the girl I know did NOT by ANY means identify with being Hispanic in her life. She was white, but anyone who looked at her <em>might</em> have thought otherwise. She looked a little bit ethnic, so visually, she <em>could</em> pass for Hispanic...</p>
<p>Was this an ethical college admission if she got in on her stretched, but true, URM status? </p>
<p>^ That's unethical but legal, according to the federal definitions of ethnicity."</p>
<p>I am wondering why this would be unethical? Did this girl only check Hispanic? Is it because the poster doesn't think she identifies with being Hispanic? What is the definition of identifying? I'm curious, because this is a pretty good description of my daughter's ethnicity, and although college apps are still a couple years off, I would think if she was filling it out now she would check Puerto Rican and white. I would probably tell her to also check other and write in Italian too. I didn't realize this was such a controversial topic until I stumbled across this thread. We live in a very ethnically diverse area and don't really think about race/ethnicity too much. She certainly wouldn't want to do anything that could be construed as unethical.</p>
<p>Well, I called it unethical on basis of "the girl I know did NOT by ANY means identify with being Hispanic in her life." I presumed that the OP knew the girl well enough to judge. It is self-identification--so be honest with yourself, if you didn't gain (or even if you stood to lose) an edge in admissions, what would you self-identify as? That should be what you put on the application, if you choose to answer the question--adhering to the legal definition if you really don't self-identify as that ethnicity, I would consider unethical.</p>
<p>Italian is considered white.</p>