"Race" in College Admissions FAQ & Discussion 3

Applying to College
1001

<p>What’s the latest proposal for classifying human beings who inhabit the United States into “race” groups based on scientific evidence, which the relevant federal officials say is NOT how that classification is done at present? </p>

<p>[Black</a> or African American persons, percent, 2000](<a href=“http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_68176.htm]Black”>http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_68176.htm) </p>

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<p>In my lifetime, whole new classifications have been devised, and people from the Indian subcontinent have been reassigned from the “white” classification to the “Asian” classification for federal statistical purposes. What classification makes more sense than the current classification? </p>

<p>My preference would be [no</a> classification by race at all](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061810714-post10.html]no”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1061810714-post10.html) and I know I am not alone in thinking this is the best policy trade-off.</p>

1002

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<p>We don’t need exact classification systems in order to (meaningfully and reasonably accurately) discuss groupings such as cultures, professions, architectural styles, cuisines, or economic classes. Scientific classification of those may be harder than that of race. </p>

<p>Which makes it interesting that there aren’t many people striving to make sure that every reference to a “culture”, a “profession”, “the rich”, or “Chinese architecture” is placed between quotation marks and attacked as an illusory social construct. </p>

<p>A government or other entity that provide resources to support one profession but not another, or Moorish architecture but not Japanese, might need to have some definite criteria, whether or not the boundaries thus defined are completely sharp or correspond to known science. The rest of us, people who are choosing whether to see one or another type of architectural exhibition, to eat Mexican or Italian food, or whether to ask one person (who happens to be “black”) or another (who happens to be “Asian”) on a date, don’t need to first write a dissertation on the ontology of the categories.</p>

1003

<p>Hey guys, I have a quick question regarding race in college admission. I am of Native American descent, but my adopted mom and dad are of Southeast Asian and Caucasian descent. Am I an URM? I don’t believe I have any verification of tribal affiliations or any idea who my “real” parents were. In fact, I never really considered myself Native American until all this college business. Thanks!</p>

1004

<p>You are Native-American, but you might possibly need verification of this in order to be considered as such on your college app. Maybe you should ask your adopted parents if they know about your biological parents. Or perhaps you should be tested at a hospital.</p>

1005

<p>Why, why, why? Isn’t that racial profiling?</p>

<p>I mean, is there really a difference between a African-American or a Hispanic student with a very low GPA and a White or an Asian student with a very low GPA? Seriously, why does race have to matter?</p>

<p>A mexican kid with I don’t know, a 4.0 GPA should be NO DIFFERENT from a Chinese kid with a 4.0 GPA with the same amount of extracurriculars/similar SAT scores.</p>

<p>A chinese kid with a 2.1 GPA should be NO DIFFERENT from a mexican kid with the same 2.1 GPA. I mean cmon do colleges really gotta be racist? (If they are)</p>

1006

<p>Race is definitely a factor in college admissions. They all must show DIVERSITY and to do so they will admit students with lower credentials. If it wasn’t a factor they certainly would not ask the question on applications. It is wrong but there is no way to change the policies. If a school is too white they get labelled.</p>

1007

<p>yoitzzjasonn: you’re not bringing up questions that haven’t been brought forth ad nauseum on this site. Here’s the two cent answer using your example:</p>

<p>Is a 4.0 Mexican student different than a 4.0 Chinese? No. But if you have ONE 4.0 Mexican applying and 15 4.0 Chinese applying to three spots – why can’t I give one of those slots to the Mexican? Don’t I have the right to do so?</p>

<p>And if you say YES, then don’t I still have this perogative if there was 14 4.0 Chinese and one 3.9 Mexican and one 3.8 Chinese athlete–??? Why CAN’T I give one to the Mexican and the 3.8 athlete? I might not if metrics were the sole criteria. Since I’ve clearly stated that metrics aren’t the sole criteria, no one should be surprised IF the 3.9 student and the 3.8 student got two out of the three slots.</p>

<p>And if you take issue with that thinking, here’s my reply: the very way I’ve chosen the student body in the past is exactly one of the reasons for my level of perceived “prestige” and why so many students want to attend my school. The very fact that I’m not a “metrics-only” school is one of the very reasons for my desirability. After all, about 85% of colleges in the USA practice “metric-only” admissions. But you want to come to my private LAC-IVY-top Engineering college — well, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.</p>

1008

<p>Because for SAT scores (not GPA), if you look at the statistics, a 2100 for an African American student is statistically equivalent to about a 2300 for a white student. Do you think black students should only be compared to black students? Well, maybe, maybe not. But given the incredibly small number of African Americans with college-worthy statistics, much less top-college-worthy statistics, even AA students with a 1900 are in high demand.</p>

<p><a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_2008_cr_m_w_gender_ethnic_groups.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board;

1009

<p>Interesting new link I found after following up on some library research I was doing today: </p>

<p><a href=“http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/05/race-in-a-genetic-world.html[/url]”>http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/05/race-in-a-genetic-world.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>P.S. By popular demand, the new thread on this subject should be started up Real Soon Now. I’ll update the first several FAQ posts off-line and then post at a convenient moment.</p>

1010

<p>Not selecting an ethnicity is equivalent to being asian, imo. There’s no reason to not select it if you’re an URM, unless you don’t actually want to go to the college. </p>

<p>I guess I personally don’t believe in AA. However, it’s there, and it’s just another thing in the system. It’s not like they completely block out asians or whites. In fact, Asians and whites still do make a majority of many schools. So why not just make yourself as good as them? The time spent whining about AA could be better used in a lot of other places.</p>

1011

<p>So is being an Asian really hurting you?</p>

1012

<p>So I am a middle class white guy, but my grandfather was full Mexican (this makes me a quarter). if I put that i am white/hispanic will it help my chances? or will they think im lying in some way?</p>

1013

<p>My question would be did you have a strong identification w/your mexican heritage? If not, and the “I might be hispanic” thing has now only come up to put on like pulling a jacket out of the closet, then I think your on ethically shaky ground. Of course, cynics will immediately chime in and say: “The system is unfair anyways so you’re fully justified in using any prop you can.”</p>

<p>I disagree. My opinion only. I’d also like to point you to this: an actual reply by an actual admissions officer posted on 1/26/07 on a thread entitled: “Am i a minority?”</p>

<p>"okay, what many of you are saying/suggesting on here is really quite disingenuous…</p>

<p>to the original poster…african-american is meant to describe americans who have black african descendents. i think most of you know that. if you don’t, there’s your clarification.</p>

<p>you, however, have a very interesting background. i would check “other” and describe yourself as you have - as having middle eastern descendents. and yes, that would make you a “minority” in the united states. however, do you identify with middle eastern culture? if you do, it’s a good idea to include something in your application about that as it probably makes you unique is some ways and gives you a different perspective on things.</p>

<p>bomgeedad - your comment in post #26 is absolutely incorrect. if a student identifies as a member of a certain racial or ethnic group but has no real connection to it, we aren’t going to think of that student as able to contribute anything special to our community, at least with respect to racial or cultural diversity. although this is only one facet of their application, they aren’t going to have any kind of “advantage” in admissions if they identify as belonging to a specific racial group unless they show a connection to that community and evidence it has shaped their perspective on things and will be shared in college. and even then, this is just one consideration…</p>

<p>this post has made me think a lot about several students who have applied to my school this year. i just read one student who identified as “hispanic” because their grandmother was born in spain. she is applying from a high school that sends us about 30 applications a year (we usually admit 3-4). disingenuous. another student whose family immigrated to south america during world war two to escape the nazis - white austrian parents born in south america, the student and their siblings in the us. this student identified as “hispanic”. disingenuous. yet another student has parents who are white but born in south africa. identified as african-american. disingenuous. and other student who has her “enrollment pending” for a native-american tribe - she indicated she is “native american” - not white and native american, not white and 1/8 native american, but just native american. interesting that there was absolutely nothing about her “heritage” in her application whatsoever; I looked at her siblings’ applications (who both came to my school a few years ago and were far superior to her academically) and both indicated they are white only. disingenuous.</p>

<p>indicating something you are not on your college applications is wrong ethically; essentially, if you are identifying with a race or culture you have no connection to, you’re lying to us. not cool, and not going to get you any supporters in the admissions office."</p>

1014

<p>Definitely put Hispanic.</p>

1015

<p>hmm very interesting thanks. well, my grandfather was actually Mexican, as opposed to being born in Mexico like some of the guys in that post were. I would definately say I was quarter mexican, not full mexican like the “native American”. however I cant say i have a strong connection to my hispanic heritage. so im in a bit of a pickle i guess. if it says what is your ethnicity, i have no problem putting 3/4 white, 1/4 mexican, cuz thats what I am. If they say what ethnicity do you most identify with, i would have to say white, cuz that is the truth. lying on my app is certainly not the best way to start. thanks again</p>

1016

<p>This is my acid test. Are you doing it because it’s true or are you doing it because you think it will give you an edge? Answer yes to whichever part of the question is true (or some measure of each) and then decide whether YOU feel it’s ethical. Ethics are self-defined. Define yours.</p>

1017

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<p>The definition of Hispanic ethnicity used by the federal government is linked to from one of the first few posts in this combined FAQ and discussion thread, into which your question was merged. You have the choice to indicate Hispanic ethnicity, by that definition, and to indicate white “race” after indicating Hispanic ethnicity. (The forms used in this application season first ask a Hispanic ethnicity yes-no question, and then suggest “select one or more” for the “race” question.) You also have the choice of not indicating any ethnicity or race at all. What a college does with what it sees on your form varies from college to college. </p>

<p>It’s always a good idea to let a college know about any diversity factor you might bring to a new enrolled class at the college. It’s unclear how weighty different kinds of ethnic heritages are in college admission decisions at which colleges. </p>

<p>Good luck in your applications, and good luck to everyone else applying in the coming application season.</p>

1018

<p>how far do you go to identify yourself? Like 1/8 or 1/4 or 1/16 or even 1/64?</p>

1019

<p>applicannot: Ethics has nothing to do with it. </p>

<p>Read the Harvard article posted by Tokenadult. Skin color has nothing to do with who we are as human beings. Skin color is no different from eye color: both are surface features that our ancestors developed because of the environment in which they lived. Colleges want superficial diversity, nothing more. The adcoms want to look out of their ivy-covered towers and see students of all colors simply because that makes them feel good; somehow they feel that if their campus has a rainbow of skin colors, that proves that they are not racists (what’s ironic is that colleges achieve this “diverse mix” by judging people based on their skin color, which is the hallmark of racism). The sad truth is that colleges couldn’t care less about whether or not the campus was truly diverse. They only want it to look diverse. </p>

<p>Colleges created this superficial game, and people like Xargon42 have the absolute right to play along by taking advantage of the fact that his grandfather’s genetics make him superficially diverse from the typical white/Asian student. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he “feels” Hispanic (and the notion that Hispanics feel a certain way is either racist or stupid or both, take you pick). </p>

<p>By all means, Xargon42, check the box for Hispanic. Good luck to you!</p>

1020

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<p>There isn’t any scientific rule about this. And there isn’t any commonplace social rule about this either. I feel quite strongly identified with a country that was the ancestral home of just one of my eight great-grandparents, because another relative (in my grandparent’s generation) is strongly identified with that country. My son (one-sixteenth of ancestors from that country) has studied in that country. He sure doesn’t look like anyone who grew up there, but he has ties to the culture. </p>

<p>But of course that country isn’t mentioned as a separate basis for ethnicity on college application forms, which is why I claim that all those categories are arbitrary anyway. Why should one country of origin be deemed more significant than another?</p>