"Race" in College Admissions FAQ & Discussion 3

<p>How sure are you that the call really came from the school? All kinds of HS pranks go one during admissions season...</p>

<p>But I am relatively sure the call came from the school. It's not a school I talked to any of my friends about being interested in, and its an out of state private school, so it would be one heck of a coincidence.</p>

<p>this is the liberal agenda.</p>

<p>get used to it.</p>

<p>^Got that right</p>

<p>Of course they can legally ask you what your race is. And you are always able to politely decline to answer the question.</p>

<p>It's possible that with your record, they wanted to offer you a scholarship that's earmarked for students of a specific ethnic or racial background.</p>

<p>^^</p>

<p>spoken like a bona fide liberal.</p>

<p>SIEG HEIL!</p>

<p>
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What Can a College Legally Ask You?

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<p>This question thread was moved from the College Search & Selection Forum and merged into this "Race" in College Admissions FAQ & Discussion 3 thread on the College Admissions Forum. </p>

<p>Colleges can ask you about Hispanic ethnicity or not, and about certain federally defined "race" categories. Some colleges, by state regulation, ask about additional categories that are supposed to fit into the federal categories. But students are always allowed not to answer. That's what the first few posts in this FAQ thread should make clear.</p>

<p>What ethnicity would someone half-Malay, half-Pakistani count as? Would that be an advantage or a disadvantage?</p>

<p>
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What ethnicity would someone half-Malay, half-Pakistani count as?

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</p>

<p>All-Asian by the federal rules. </p>

<p>Or the person could simply not indicate an ethnicity at all, and then would be counted as "race/ethnicity unknown." </p>

<p>Colleges are too vague about their admission policies to be sure whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage. If you think that background makes you very different from most other applicants to the colleges you like best, it is probably worth mentioning on your application, especially if you can make the case that that background gives you more flexibility in dealing with people of varied backgrounds. </p>

<p>Good luck in your applications.</p>

<p>Thanks ^^. By the way, I forgot to add - how do you identify "ethnicity" anyway? What if the above person, and one of their parents, were both British citizens - would the student still count as all-Asian?</p>

<p>Well, that's one of the problems with the definitions: they don't fully take into account everything that might influence a person's ethnicity. The United States Bureau of the Census is correct when it says the definitions are not scientific. Insofar as Britain is a multi-ethnic country just like the United States, the usual idea would be that a Briton with (recent) ancestry from south Asia or southeast Asia would say "Asian" for an ethnicity. But a British passport holder who feels culturally like the majority of inhabitants of Britain might well feel more "white" than "Asian," regardless of how that person looks or what family name that person has. </p>

<p>A college applicant to a United States college who is neither a citizen nor a permanent resident of the United States isn't categorized by ethnicity at all, but is reported as "international." See </p>

<p>College</a> Search - Harvard College - At a Glance </p>

<p>(scroll down to see reporting on this issue) for one example of one college's reported categories.</p>

<p>You mean there's no strict definition of ethnicity? In that case, wouldn't it just be better not to specify that - unless one's ethnicity could be inferred from one's name?</p>

<p>^ sure, why not. my name is completely obscure & unidentifiable [turkish] even tho i'm 'white'. but i'll be marking other :D</p>

<p>No, there is no strict definition of ethnicity, and lots of people in America who fit into more than one "race" as the federal government's frequently changing definitions now define "races." I think it is all silliness or worse, as I mentioned in post</a> #10 of this thread. I treat all my fellow human beings like my fellow human beings, period. </p>

<p>But colleges have to ask about this issue, as mentioned in the federal regulation linked to from the second post in this thread, and so students should know what the silly, debatable ethnic definitions are. And they should know that it is their right not to answer these questions if they choose to answer, and that colleges don't</a> guess about ethnicity and gladly admit</a> many students who don't answer the questions each year.</p>

<p>"The U.S. Department of Education is widening an investigation into whether Princeton University is discriminating against Asian applicants by artificially capping the number of students of Asian background it admits each year. The investigation was sparked by a 2006 lawsuit filed by Jian Li, a Chinese immigrant who grew up in Livingston, NJ, who was rejected for admission into Princeton's class of 2010 although he had perfect SAT scores, was in the top 1 percent of his high school class, and had significant extracurricular activities. The DOE is examining Princeton's admissions data for the class of 2010 to determine whether Asians have been discriminated against. The University denies any discrimination, stating that 14% of its freshman class last year was Asian.</p>

<p>Mr. Li, who was also rejected at Harvard, Stanford, MIT and U. Penn, told the Yale Daily News that his case is based on a study of admissions processes published by three Princeton researchers in 2004, "which found that while elite universities gave African-American applicants an advantage equivalent to 230 extra SAT points and Hispanic applicants 185 points while making admissions decisions, the schools placed Asian-Americans at a disadvantage equal to a loss of 50 SAT points." This phenomenon has been labeled "disaffirmative action." The researchers concluded that if colleges stopped using affirmative action quotas in admitting students, Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places that are currently taken by black or Hispanic students.</p>

<p>The jury is still out on whether affirmative action policies in our colleges and universities are having a desirable effect. Are quotas an effective tool in ending racism, or are they just another form of racism? I guess it depends on who you speak to, a fact which speaks volumes."</p>

<p>[Blog link deleted according to Terms of Service--moderator edit] </p>

<hr>

<p>I personally have nothing against affirmative action and helping blacks and hispanics who are disadvantaged, but I think there is clearly discrimination against Asians in admissions into "top colleges." Basically affirmative action hurts Asians, helps Hispanics and Blacks and has no effect on whites. I really hope that in the future they can make a policy that helps Blacks, Hispanics, AND Asians like me who are disadvantaged financially and socially (legacy admissions is obviously a racist policy as very few Asians would have legacy at top universities). </p>

<p>Hopefully as I get my admit/waitlist/rejection letters my belief will be proven wrong. And so far, I have been accepted at University of Washington, accepted at University of Southern California, and waitlisted by Washington University in St. Louis, which I had considered to be a safety school although it is one of the top schools in the nation. And being waitlisted at WUSTL makes me believe that my race may have been partially to blame. </p>

<p>And if you want to see my stats you can find them here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/536417-chances-these-schools-3.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/536417-chances-these-schools-3.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>WUSTL isn't a safety.</p>

<p>WUSTL is notoriously famous for waitlisting Ivy-caliber applicants also.</p>

<p>Affirmative action DOES affect everyone in the admissions process - yes even white people even though original poster says they don't. There is a finite number of freshman that a university can take every year: every time preference is given to a minority student with inferior grades/accomplishments, that takes a seat away from someone else - asian, native american, or white etc.</p>

<p>IMO: There are a lot more blessings in life to count than whether we had the privilege of attending a private school, growing up in white or asian in an upper class family etc and consequently had that count against us. Yes, it's unfair. At this point, I consider that fact rather than opinion. I also believe there is no balance that will account for socioeconomic or racial differences in the college process in the near future...</p>

<p>There is no discrimination policy in top universities. The US department of education already has conducted similar investigations, at the height of Anti-Asian allegations in the 1980's. The study concluded that whites and Asians are accepted to schools at similar rates, after excluding the categories of legacy and athlete recruitment. </p>

<p>On the other hand, affirmative action exists to give preference to members of certain racial categories, and its here to stay despite what we think of it. However, affirmative action affects whites as well as Asians, and I think its wrong to believe mass hysteria to justify events in your own life. </p>

<p>I'm personally against affirmative action, but I don't think there is any systematic discrimination policy, official or unofficial, against students of Asian descent. </p>

<p>Basing this on two acceptances and one rejection- all from very selective universities using holistic admissions seems short sighted.</p>

<p>Edit: Oh... and that kid, Jian Li is an idiot...</p>

<p>Of course there's discrimination against Asians! It's quite obvious... </p>

<p>Wanna see what happens without discrimination against Asians? Take a look at the UCs. </p>

<p>And don't worry about WashU, they do that to improve their yield.</p>