The above is a direct quote from an archived article on the UCMerced website.
The date is Sept. 2015, but the sentiment is what matters.
Maybe the definition of “diverse” is evolving…
Discrimination is discrimination no matter who is being disadvantaged. Skin color is not a talent or a skill nor does race or SES equate with merit. Racial preferences or limitations are discriminatory. Eliminating test scores will only further enable colleges to use subjective measures to chose certain applicants over others or limit students based on wanting certain numbers of races in the mix.
The Best Colleges web site lists its “diversity” methodology at https://www.bestcolleges.com/features/most-diverse-colleges/ (have to click on “see methodology”).
The Herfindahl-Hirschman Index is described at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herfindahl_index which is linked from that page.
It is not dependent on any particular group being high or low, so the claim that “‘diversity’ is just a code word for fewer and fewer whites” is false for this particular measure of diversity.
UC Merced’s ethnic breakdown in 2014-2015 CDS was 48/24/11/5. This was not that much different from the state’s 12th grade students that year at 47/9/26/7, but the second and third largest groups are flipped.
UC Merced does not consider race or ethnicity in admission.
The reason that UC Merced is ranked highly in the area of “where students can most interact with different ethnicities” is because that is where the UC system sends all its financially challenged students. That way there is no artificial social strata to keep different ethnic groups from interacting with each other. OK, I just made that up but there is a kernel of truth there.
@picktails, sounds like you have a wonderful daughter who is off to a great start in life. The above post was in response to another post which has since been deleted, although the topic is now on another thread having to do with the randomness/fairness of the admissions process. I think your daughter is a great example of the non-randomness of the process at the higher end of the spectrum based on all the other great schools she got into.
This is an excellent essay on various affirmative action topics, surveying some of the relevant research (a bit dated now, but still 100% on point). If you don’t have the time to read the whole thing, Sections 5 and 8 especially are well worth a fair read.
https://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_the_changing_shape_of_the_river.pdf
@OHMomof2, just a nod to your pic, I LOVE it. Also big fan of your posts, lol.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
The percentage of African-American athletes in the NFL or NBA has nothing to do with college admissions, so I have deleted that OT conversation.
MODERATOR’S NOTE #2:
If I, or another moderator, has deleted a post, please do not respond to the deleted post; I’m just going to delete it. Additionally, if a post uploads, it does not mysteriously disappear; it’s been deleted, so please don’t continue to repost.
I wonder if college admission people (or anyone) watch Asian Games opening to realize that Arabs can be Asian
I could be persuaded for affirmative action in all areas or none at all. Why not for more blacks in computer industry? Why not more Asian Americans in the film industry? I just think income/asset based approach does a better job. I am for the unbiased holistic admissions approach by the way. I also agree certain people going to do well in life no matter what colleges they attend. I advise every great ORM student to apply to at least one Honors College with great merit because if you don’t get into a great sounding name college, you can at least get a good undergraduate college for free. More than one way to skin a cat. These days, you can learn anything via online courses.
@websensation excellent post I agree with everything you said, especially that ORM’s or anyone that was denied admission to a top school for whatever “random” factors. For those of us that are parents on this thread, I have been saying all along, we need to help spread this message because these type kids that aren’t getting into “top” schools need to realize that they can still do just as well in life. This argument of trying to prove that there is discrimination and that admissions to top schools isn’t “fair” is just perpetuating this problem.
My daughter just ended a great internship with a great firm…and there were kids in her group from more elite schools than her and less elite schools than her…and they all landed in the same spot!
@websensation I know what you mean by “unbiased holistic admissions” but I think in reality this is an oxymoron. I’m not sure holistic admissions can ever be unbiased just based on the fact that it is based on subjective information. But this is just how it is.
“Why not for more blacks in computer industry?”
There is definitely AA in the computer industry for minorities and women, however it’s not that effective in getting them jobs in silicon valley high tech for sure. It’s not just for college admissions. That’s why you see these companies talking about diversity and inclusion, but talking is of course different than action. However it’s complicated and off-topic for this thread.
Great news. I’ve got some reading to do. Thanks for the second link to the source document, which seemed dead in the NYT article.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/us/politics/asian-students-affirmative-action-harvard.html
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/08/30/harvard_statement_of_interest_filed_0.pdf
@collegemomjam I realized any system is not perfect but I meant not biased racially. When the majority of adcoms are liberal whites, it doesn’t surprise me that they sometimes misinterpret certain qualities in Asian cultures. I did well enough in my career to retire early and knowing what I do now, I would still not study hard at schools if I had to do it over again. I am one of few parents who suggested to his kid that he should consider going to an Honors College on merits money and take it easy (in the sense of taking every class for pure fun and not caring about grades) for 4 years without worrying about money.
I always stress to my kid his attitude, personality and character are more important than grades or what school one went or the grades.
@websensation that is solid advice that you give your son. I wonder though…and I truly don’t know the answer and it probably varies by school, but aren’t honors programs very rigorous? I feel like they might be at some schools…like Penn State for example. They have a very tedious and selective honors program application. They seem to really want the kids that WANT it and can handle it. This gives me the sense that it’s probably not only top notch, but also rigorous. Anyone know? This might be a little off topic, but kind of relevant to the thread.
Also, a question to the forum. If AA ends up going away or whatever happens as a result of the Asians suing Harvard, assuming they win, which applicants do we think will be the most negatively impacted at the most elite schools?
I could be wrong but I feel like the people that would be the most negatively impacted overall (per capita) would be unhooked White applicants. I feel like there are so many top performing Asians getting rejected than URM’s getting accepted. Not sure if my question makes sense, but I feel like so many more Asians might be accepted to the Ivies and the like now and therefore many less White applicants will get in. URMs will be impacted too, of course, but there aren’t as many?
What do you guys think?
@collegemomjam My own theory is that elite institutions would see student percentages that lower White, Hispanic, and African American numbers of students with Whites losing the largest amount of students, but with African Americans losing the highest percentage (up to 2/3’s of current numbers). I believe the students who will be most impacted are unhooked White students, legacy students who are borderline admits (and whose families don’t donate millions), and poorer to middle class URMs. I would also be wary of International students one day fighting for their piece of the pie at elite institutions (Their numbers are probably being artificially depressed as well).
Harvard’s own Office of Institutional Research has already roughly simulated how the class composition would change if race preference were eliminated but all other holistic criteria remained:
Asian: +45%
White: +15%
Hispanic: -59%
Native American: -66%
Black: -79%
I am all for “gentle bumps” and “fingers on the scale” to increase racial diversity, but these sorts of preferences amount to quotas. They are simply too large in the context of a legal system that seeks to prohibit discrimination on the basis of race.
If Harvard were to go to a primarily academic stats based admissions system, removing all other preferences like athletics, legacy, and development, as well as ignoring holistic criteria like personal qualities and extracurriculars, then Asians would see huge gains, whites slight losses, and URM extremely large losses.
See here on page 35 for the numbers (comparing Models 4 versus 3 for no race preference, and Models 4 versus 1 for academics only):
http://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-421-134-February-2013-Report.pdf
And then it will become similar to UC and MIT’s composition.