It doesn’t “logically follow” when nearly 60% of college students are female. Is there evidence that colleges required to be gender-blind (eg UCs) admit fewer males than comparable colleges elsewhere?
I merely cited what I have heard/read re: average male GPA vs average female GPA. At some schools there are far more females than males, at some schools it’s balanced.
Agian, I was merely responding to your GPA question and provided my experience, and Jeff Selingo’s findings/perspecitve. I don’t know of any data that gender blind schools admit fewer males than non-gender blind colleges, perhaps someone else does.
Given that the Supreme Court thread was merged into here, I think it is an interesting question about the breadth of any ruling. Equal protection clearly applies to gender if it applies to race. It doesn’t apply to wealth, so there’s nothing that would stop colleges favoring either rich or poor people. Likewise it doesn’t apply to geography, so you can select by location (eg a local school catchment area or favoring poor areas).
But to your point above, does the overall effect of favoring males in nursing and females in engineering (if it actually happens “in general”) result in a net gain for men relative to what it would be under gender-blind selection across the board? Or are Carleton’s strenuous efforts (ending up with 52% female // 48% male in a class of ~500 per year) an outlier rather than representative of the country-wide impact.
Approximate percentage of women in enrollment:
- 53% UC
- 57% CSU
- 55% California community colleges
However, California demographics regarding gender of college students may not necessarily be the same as in the US overall. A Generation of American Men Give Up on College (WSJ Article) - #6 by ucbalumnus in a previous thread has some observations. Note the lack of a gender gap in college graduation rates for Asian people. Given the large number of Asian students in California, that may account for a smaller gender gap in college in California than elsewhere in the US.
I agree with that only if they do not accept federal funding. Hillsdale wanted this freedom, so they decided to forego federal funding.
ETA: I see others have made a similar point, and I think it’s an important one. A private school is truly only private if it does not use government funding. If it takes government funding, the government should be able to make the rules for receiving such funding.
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I think the suit will be written to be broadly interpretive. Yes, the SCOTUS decision could be split between public/private educational institutions. Both groups which have brought these suits in the past are looking for access to all institutions and with Harvard and UNC on the list, I’d assume that portends they are not going to let private schools make their own choices. I think it mentions the 14th amendment.
Government funding for all schools makes it difficult to “opt out”. But even a very large wealthy U, like Harvard is not going to give up government funding for research, labs, etc just to continue their AA course. They would likely create another game plan to get the diversity they seek and still be following the rules should they change under a new SCOTUS ruling.
Should be interesting.
If the speculated change does happen, there are also advantages for URMs afterward, such as being able to clearly dismiss any claims or stigma of racial preference that sometimes get thrown in their direction.
Unfortunately, it does seem that many people believe that some colleges consider race / ethnicity in admission even when they actually do not, so this type of thing is unlikely to go away completely, even though it will mean that many will believe in something that is clearly false.
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It would probably take 20 yrs of race-blind admissions policies to erase the stigma of the current racial preferences in admissions. On the other hand, if nothing is done to facilitate admission of URMs to the most seelctive schools, and to medical schools, in 20 years we might be back to having very few URM doctors, and very few URM leaders in other fields. Simply adding a 10-15% thumb to the scale doesn’t seem the right way to do it, but if not, what will be?
I know a few URM students in my area hit every criteria possible (class ranking, National merit level test scores, state and National awards, with leadership posts to boot and they are still stigmatized as getting in due to race . An SCOTUS decision doesn’t fix the stigma. California and Michigan voters removed considering race and URM students at the UCs and the University of Michigan still deal with stigma.
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Given the amount of federal grants major research universities like Harvard receive, the courts may determine that they should be treated like public universities.
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Who exactly is harmed by AA?
Asians according to the plaintiffs.
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And how are they harmed, by having to go to a different elite university?
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Google it. This isn’t a new issue. Harvard already went thru a lawsuit regarding a similar claim.
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Harvard’s use of a “Personal Rating” as one of four criteria for admissions (along with academics, extracurriculars and athletics) reminds me of how Car Magazine evaluates cars. Car is a UK magazine that has an obvious bias towards British brands in comparison tests. Autos are typically evaluated based on measurable metrics like acceleration, top speed, braking distance, etc. Car also includes an ill defined, purely subjective score like “driving pleasure”. In a comparison test an Aston Martin might have weaker measured results in acceleration, braking, etc. than its competition from Ferrari and Porsche, yet win the test because of its “driving pleasure” score. Car uses “driving pleasure” to tip the scales in favor of British marques just as Harvard uses “personal score” to favor minority applicants.
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Yes. Although schools such as Hillsdale, Grove City, or Bob Jones (to name a few) that accept no federal monies might be exempted should private schools that accept federal funds be held to a standard that is similar to public schools (assuming that SCOTUS bars the use of race in admissions, of course).
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Or any high stat, high GPA applicants who are not black or Hispanic, I would imagine.
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They might not get in to a different elite university, because those other elite universities are also using race-based admissions criteria.
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Some would argue that AA negatively impacts the high stat Hispanics and African Americans the most.
I’m well aware of Ed Blum’s crusade. I was asking for the commenter’s definition of the “many.” Thanks, though.