All? I suspect there are private schools without black students in the US. Intentionally or not.
The Harvard ceremony was definitely for the grad schools, possibly some undergrads attended. It was open to non-black students too.
@hebegebe I see your point about the transparency, but I just don’t know where you would draw the line on what needed to be transparent. Would it be fair to just post the accepted students scores by race or whatever protected class you are talking about (maybe they do this already somewhere?)? I think when we just look at numbers we are missing a big part of the application. So a protected class student that gets into Harvard with a 32 over a non-protected kid with a 35…but there might be a lot more to the story. Yes, the 35 might have been a 3 sport varsity athlete, is first chair in the award winning orchestra, NHS, National Merit, you name it (as many Harvard applicants are), but the kid with the 32 might have his/her own story to tell. Maybe that 32 they got is from self studying because they had no resources available to them other than the internet. And they did all of this while working 40 hours a week to help out at home. Who is more worthy of the spot in that situation? There is no right or wrong…it comes down to a judgement call that everyone needs to just accept and move on.
I think the transparency you are suggesting would possibly cause more harm than good because we would be missing critical components to the decisions that are being made. And people would jump to the wrong conclusions and more resentment would build.
I go back to my original suggestion that we need to stop implying that the process isn’t “fair”. It may never be completely fair, but some of the changes that are suggested would probably tip the scales back the other way and that might be even less fair. We need to trust that these admissions offices are doing their best.
And as it relates to your comment about there being federal funding going to these schools…all students probably benefit from that funding. Not just the ones that you are suggesting got in with “lower standards”. And the kids that don’t get into their top choices are still probably at schools receiving federal funding.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2018/04/tech_hs_school_senior_accepted_to_all_8_ivy_league.html
Absolutely bonkers story coming out of NJ where I grew up. In fact this was my brother’s HS alma mater. The ENTIRE class of ‘African Americans’ there is now and my nephew goes goes there to verify this: Egyptian Coptic and Carribean migrants children. There is not more than 12 African Americans in the current class. ~200 This girl grew up in a VERY nice local town, Bayonne, whereas many of the poorer Asians Hispanics and black grew up in teh adjoining Jersey City, in poverty.
The Coptic community in her town of Bayonne https://youtu.be/Kb8WvXLZklE?t=18078 came out to deny a mosque, and routinely call afro americans’ ‘abeed’ or slave. yet despite being a mediocre student, her brother got into Brown and she consistently got into 8 ivy leagues. I mean does she look black to you? Did her grandparents go through slavery or segregation?
We basically are giving a huge handicap up to people who would never return that Liberalism to other minorities. This stinks BIG ITME
How do you know she got a bump from affirmative action at all, much less at someone else’s expense, @ELopez1275 ? This comes off like sour grapes at someone’s success, to be honest. She’s Egyptian-American and apparently doesn’t hide that fact in her essay, so she would not be considered AA by the census or by colleges.
This young lady sounds impressive (while the article itself’s accuracy does not - “full scholarships to all Ivies” - we all know there is no merit scholarship at the ivies; she is clearly low income or she wouldn’t get any financial aid). She’s also first gen. Her dad is deceased but drove a truck for living. She helped raise her siblings. She has stellar grades and test scores. Apparently her essay was very strong, likely her recs too. This student didn’t NEED AA to get into Ivies, though the sweep of 8 is, as always, perplexing. Why apply to all 8? I’ll never understand that.
@ELopez1275 I had a similar reaction to @OHMomof2 after reading that article, but are you saying this girl counts herself as “African American”? Would you even know this?
However, I do see the point you are making, although this may not be the best example because I do think this girl is a strong candidate for any school.
The point is that sometimes AA helps the wrong people, and yes, sometimes the wrong people’s views are contrary to the very values that AA is trying to promote on college campuses, one of those being inclusiveness.
For argument’s sake, let’s say this girl is herself prejudice against African Americans, as your post suggests is a possibility based on what you know about her community (which we of course have no way of knowing). If she ends up at Yale and has these views, she will have a hard time finding people to befriend. Or, to be more of an optimist, maybe she would be exposed to such an incredible and well rounded education that she will become more open minded and accepting of people from all backgrounds. And go back to her community and spread the word.
So while I don’t think your example @ELopez1275 was necessarily the right one, I understand what you are saying and you are right although let’s hope the wrong kids don’t slip through the cracks too often. AA isn’t a perfect system and I can see how it might be frustrating when you are watching others, some that you personally know or are aware of, get in to top schools that the system wasn’t supposed to be helping.
It is also not a given that a 17/18 year old person from a community with a lot of racists/bigots will necessarily be racist/bigoted.
Let’s hope if she is now, which she totally probably isn’t, she will not be when she graduates from one of those Ivies.
I’m sorry but no one here can post their application and show it, but I know from a good source. One.
Secondly, Egyptian Americans are NOT subsahran Africans, let alone Afro Americans who went through slavery segregation.
Lastly, I have hardly ever seen anyone but African migrants children get accepted into all 8 ivy leagues. There is some chance of variability. Please look at my previous posts, I am not going to get into this argument right now . Bottom line is she is from a community, and a city that hates minorities yet benefits from policies African American fought for IMMENSELY. In my own community we have Ted Cruz, Artiles, Rubio whose comments about Muslims, African Americans are abbhorent, we have some of the lowest intermarriage rates with blacks, and one of the most segregated housing markets in Miami-Dade, and yet Cuban Americans despite being nearly 100% white, claim affirmative action in the US.
This is really upsetting.
I know because my brother in law is an Indian (Asian) Muslim and lives in Bayonne. The Coptic Christians there routinely would try and stop any mosque from being build in the town for years (although they now have three) and lo and behold the last 5 years every single ‘African’ at High Tech, BHS, McNair in Hudson County are 1) Egyptian 2) African migrants kids. Meanwhile my BIL grew up in the adjoining city in the ghetto in near poverty, and even at the HS level was denied entrance even though he had higher PSAT scores (there is no holistic admission at the HS levle) in the early 2000s
They have forgotten the minorities they need to help. If AA comes down to putting out poorer Muslims in Ameirca vs second generation Africans, I think liberals have lost their moral barometer. And FYI she was offered a generous financial package from H and P, while many of the students in her class (she isn’t even the val or salutatorian) will have to give up their dreams or get into debt. Disgusting. This is an egregrious examples of affirmative action.
- Lydia ElRehab, the woman in the vidoe, is the cousin of the girl, whose FB is full of such hateful anti-Muslim propaganda.
Please stop. Even if everything you say is true, it is still completely wrong to attack this student the way you are doing.You should never blame students for taking advantage of any opportunities that come before them, even if you think them unfair. The students don’t make the rules.
dude even since I WAS A KID. they all do it here. the egyptians who call blacks ‘abeed’ or slave disparingly do it. it’s well known. i can pull up a couple reddit threads for you if you think it’s limited to this geography or community as well on /r/egypt where they encourage each other to lie as well
PS what is vanilla comment?
See what you’re missing here is she was NOT getting a preference for being African American. She’s Eqyptian, she didn’t tell colleges she wasn’t. Eqyptians are not sub-Saharan and are definitely not AA, as you point out.
Thus she’s basically a first gen immigrant who aced her tests and killed it with her grades and took hard classes and had a great story to tell.
It’s not relevant to affirmative action at all, as far as I can tell.
And again, if she got a generous financial package it’s because she is POOR. Low income/low assets. That’s the only way you can get aid from H and P.
i couldn’t eidt it but it was ‘scholarship’ + fin package
You are wrong OHMomof2, they only care about checking the ‘black’ box. No one verifies it, it’s SELF identification. I’ve sat on ADCOM committees for programs . If you are identify yourself as an economically disadvantages minority, your application is getting read.
@ELopez1275 No Ivy league U gives any aid that isn’t need-based, despite what the article said. And if she checked “black” but wrote her essay about her experience with her Egyptian dad and being an immigrant, you don’t think they caught that?
This girl sounds smart. Well spoken in the interview. She deserved her acceptances.
http://newjersey.news12.com/story/37947404/nj-high-schooler-accepted-to-all-8-ivy-colleges
Being first generation and (relatively) low income are not really big deals, though. Smart knows no class boundaries. Plenty of first generation kids outperform the most wealthy and privileged students; innate ability always rises to the top.
Many students, first generation or otherwise, have their opportunities limited by parental actions. A common example is that the parents divorce and become uncooperative with funding college for the kid, or even doing financial aid forms (most highly selective colleges with good financial aid require both parents’ finances for financial aid). Or the parents (married or divorced) are unable or unwilling to contribute what even the generous-financial-aid colleges expect.
Other limitations affecting first generation or low income kids include often being in schools without the college admission express train found in schools serving high income areas. Can’t get National Merit if no one tells you to take the PSAT in 11th grade, for example.
^ So what. Go to a cheaper college or win a scholarship. The best thing that could be done for low income and/or first generation students would be to reestablish ability testing in elementary school. Give the smart but unprivileged kids a chance to be discovered.
@ELopez1275 I understand your frustration. The bigger issue to me sounds like there is a lot of perceived prejudice in this Coptic community and so many of us have no experience or first hand info on such communities.
Sounds like you think she checked the wrong box and if she did, hopefully, as @OHMomof2 said, they caught that…(and if they did, they still decided to admit her).
I wish I had some advice for you on how best to deal with your frustration. You raise a good point that I’m not sure these threads can address. What are we supposed to do when we are exposed to such extreme prejudice? I’m not convinced this girl herself is prejudice, but if her community is as you describe, that is very sad and you are increasing awareness through your posts. If they are as bad as you say, you would think they won’t be able to get away with it all of the time and there will be repercussions for such abhorrent behavior. But maybe I am being too idealistic.
There are zero repercussions. This has been happening for almost 2 deacdes. As someone who sat on my undergraduate committee there are such few people who mark ‘black’ that we all compete for them to market our own universities. I would love for someone here to try and advertise a Jewish quota and see if it gets as much acceptance as a quota against poorer Asian minorities like my BIL. Bonkers. I just can’t understand a system that is so gross and affects someone’s life in this country and in this day and age of trump. Painful. With my nephews growing up and coming to HS age in a copule years, I already know they will only mark Hispanic, I will not let them do anything else.
That Youtube link is what they will have to face (there are children sitting in the crowd in that city council meeting as a Copt calls them part of the Muslim Brotherhood/terrorists) this is 15 min out of Manhattan.
To say those children are less deserving of affirmative action than other minorities or have to score higher than whites…and to see Liberals try and defend such stupidity is aghast. I’m done. This is indefensible.
@ELopez1275 you need to chill. Everyone has made good points, and personally I agree with only a few things you’ve said. No one is defending the fact that some people who deserve affirmative action don’t receive it. I find it a little ignorant that you make the same point over and over again, with little to no evidence to back up your claims.
I personally think when you have minorities who were never legitimately denied educational opportunities due to race, that they won’t fight for it when the time comes. the system will defeat itself, wait for that Trump DOJ action, and don’t be shocked when my words come true. come back to this post.